topic Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix in Operating System - HP-UX

HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

Alzhy — Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:51:52 GMT

Does anyone have or could point me to what are the currently supported SAN Boot configurations?

So far, been successful with EVA5000 Active/Pasive with SecurePath 3.0E.

Am interested what other SAN arrays are supported.

Thanks!

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

Alzhy — Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:54:05 GMT

Found it!

http://search.hp.com/redirect.html?type=REG&qt=SAN+Boot+Support&url=http%3A//docs.hp.com/en/7408/HPUXSANBootWP_final_v2_update.pdf%3Fjumpid%3Dreg_R1002_USEN&pos=2

Okay.. now experiences please? What are you using?

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

Alzhy — Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:05:07 GMT

Has someone actually tried SAN boot on:

rp7400, A6795A + XP disks?

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

Alzhy — Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:09:50 GMT

The support document mentions:

rp54xx
rp7410

-- no mention of rp7400 or even the rp7405!?

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

TwoProc — Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:18:35 GMT

I struggle every day of my life to make sure that some salesman doesn't come and try to convince me to let my systems boot off a SAN ever again. Just kidding. :-) Almost. OK, I'm just exagerrating... but still...

We had a legacy system(non HP) that booted off a SAN, and everytime that thing hiccuped and choked on SAN settings - I nearly had a heart attack. I wanted soooo badly to have local disks, so that AT LEAST I had a running OS with some tools on it to BEGIN looking at problems with the SAN. Happily, it's been replaced with newer servers, with local drives and nice SCSI cards and mirroring software (and nice SAN storage - but not to boot off of). Replaced that stuff about 6 mos ago, and MAAAAN I FEEEL BETTER NOWWW!

I've been doing this for a LOT of years, and you see if I've got local scsi disks.. I know a lot of things, I know how to back em up, I know how to dd them, I know how to mirror them, I know quickly what to do if one of the mirrored drives don't work (point to the other one), or if the scsi card doesn't work, (stick in another card just like it). I can recover with the same box, another box, another disk, a tape. I can even yank the controller hardware card of a working disk and stick on the dead drive and revive the whole disk half the time. The thing is, I may have stuff on the server to fix - BUT I CAN BOOT THAT SUCKER! Which means I can start fixing it.

When the OS doesn't boot and the SAN stares at me... and I can't even boot to see what the SAN interface is doing... I just wanna shrivel up and die or simply take up "hamburger cook" as a new life calling.

Friends don't let friends boot from SANS.

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

Bill Hassell — Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:02:01 GMT

I will second John's observations. SANs have gotten more and more complicated, requiring specialized software to make them work. But unlike a JBOD set, there can be complex settings that cannot be seen when the system is not running. Or worse, someone else manages the SAN (and switch) with multiple ports to other systems and a 'small' change disables boot capability, hardly a high-availability solution.

That said, local disks must be hot-replaceable and mirrored. Any disk that is not replaceable with power on should be removed. (that means removed, not just used for testing...that disk can eventually fail in a way that takes the machine down)

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

A. Clay Stephenson — Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:22:23 GMT

Wild horses (goblins, orcs, trolls, Cylons, or smurfs) couldn't make me boot from a SAN.
It's state of the art dumb; all you will know is that your box won't boot. Why? You don't even have the tools to know. There are ideal applications for dumb SCSI drives and system disks is one of them.

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

Uwe Zessin — Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:29:07 GMT

> You don't even have the tools to know.

That is the fault of the server vendor !!

On AlphaServers with OpenVMS or Tru64 Unix operating systems it is absolutely normal to boot from SAN and even use a single-image system disk.

The console subsystem has a utility (WWIDMGR) to probe the fabric, display all paths to a device and to configure multiple boot paths. The boot loader is smart enough to skip dead/ standby paths. We've been doing this for 6 years now.

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

Alzhy — Sun, 05 Mar 2006 02:15:13 GMT

Well, the post was originally to look for the supported configurations matrix that I think has been in existence for over 5 years now. Why the hesitancy and skepticism - coz I think most of the revered gurus in here simply do not have the environment and were used to myth and lore surrounding how "dangerous" SAN boots are.

SANs these days are so robust both on the infrastructure (switches, cabling, appliances) as well as Arrays. As long as one sticks to the supported configuration in the matrix - SAN boots should be reliable. I've been personally booing off EVA SANS for 3 years now w/o incident and I am about to use XP12000 boot LUNs plus VxVM rootability. Boot SANs offer more advantages than the imagined and perceived risks suggested. Since storage in my client's data center are all SAN based - if I cannot boot my servers due to a SAN problem - so what is the use of booting anyway if other storage on the SAN is inaccessible?

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

Alzhy — Sun, 05 Mar 2006 02:26:09 GMT

"SANs have gotten more and more complicated, requiring specialized software to make them work.."

As a matter of fact, SANs have become simpler and easier. Servers with problems on SANs most often can be attributed to admins who do not keep up with knowledge or awareness on SANs. I do not control or am responsible for our SANs BUT I hone my skills and keep up with my storage admins so I know what implications any SAN changes may have on our servers.

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

Geoff Wild — Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:17:04 GMT

Sorry to jump in late here Nelson, have you ever mirrored to the SAN?

That is, have root on a local disk and on the SAN? Is that supported?

I would be more inclined to do that if it is supported - boot off the SAN - then if SAN fails - atleast I can fall back to the local drive.

Thanks...Geoff

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

Alzhy — Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:22:37 GMT

Yep.. that's how I managed to get buy-in from a skeptical client and a well entrenched "HP-UX only veterans" laced Admin team... 2 boot LUNs on 2 EVA5Ks running at VCS 3.025. This was precepitated actually not by concern that our SAN is not robust (we have redundant SANs btw, an A and B SAN) but because of unfortunate events in the past on our EVA5K.

We've got a huge XP12K which I am also planning to implement as boot disks. I think we soon will be able to ditch our DS21XX SCSI enclosures and save a couple PCI slots with the newer combo 2GbFC+GigE cards.

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

TwoProc — Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:38:32 GMT

Nelson,

I know, I asked for it - sticking in an opinion, when all you asked for was a data matrix... so it's my own fault.

BUT, let's not let common sense stop us at this point, let us "Endeavor to Perservere" regardless of outcome...

You stated that you've " ... been personally booing(sic) off EVA SANS for 3 years now w/o incident." Well, I liked them fine when I was using them "w/o incident" too! It was the time I spent trying to boot "w/ incident" that bothered me, the other times were great!

--------------
Warning: Sarcasm just grows and grows from here on. It ain't pretty. You've been warned.
--------------

"Servers with problems on SANs most often can be attributed to admins who do not keep up with knowledge or awareness on SANs."

Thanks for the thought, but we've got excellent up-to-date SANS, tools, and admins, with very nice software that we've payed a pretty penny extra for. In fact, from what you've said, I've got the same stuff you've got.

Wait a minute

...

"Denial" ain't just a river in Egypt.

...

OK, I admit it, you've broken me down - it's true - the first step is to admit you have a problem - RIGHT ? ...

My problem is that in my feeble efforts to overcome my status as an "awdnkuwkoaos" and learn from my mistakes I just can't overcome the fact that I STILL don't want to boot from a SAN, but it's the "awdnkuwkoaos" disability, and not the 13 years experience telling me which way I should go. (LOTS of bawling and nose wiping...)

...

(formulating idea that SOMETHING SHOULD BE DONE in my head )

...

As of THIS MOMENT, I'm asking for everyones' support/consideration/thoughts/prayers in the following:

I'm going to start a petition that we officially list "awdnkuwkoaos" as a disability so myself and others can get a handicap plate for our old out of date vehicles with AM/FM/cassette sound systems, which don't even possess a secondary power-sources (cigarette lighter adapters) for connecting satellite radio recievers.

I'm also thinking of a creating older-server-almond-colored wristbands that we can all wear to raise awareness of this travesty.

I also want to know why, with the MILLIONS of PEOPLE who live and die as "awdnkuwkoaos" each year, how is it possible that we still don't have cheap affordable generic medication to treat the disease (I'm upgrading it a disease now)? Why? Tell me! I'll tell you - it's because *they* want us to live and die with this condition! (FYI-This last one was to get all you conspiracy theorists out there on board)

Keep up the struggle!

:-)

Re: HP-UX SAN Boot Support/Configuration Matrix

Alzhy — Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:51:32 GMT

Messr. Joubert, your opinions are highly appreciated. Where can I sign up for the "awdnkuwkoaos" petition?

Geoff, KongtraZ on your now being in the realm of ITRC Gods. BTW, yes I've also tried mirroring between a SAN boot LUN and a local disk but simply went for mirroring between 2 SAN boot LUNs.