topic Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ? in Operating System - HP-UX

How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Alexander M. Ermes — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:02:30 GMT

Hi there.
Running systems :

one V2500 / 25 Oracle databases and instances
Oracle Applications for all
databases

two N4000 / 11 Oracle databases and instances
2 BEA weblogic servers
1 BRIO server ( ODS and BQS )

one K460 / 3 Oracle databases

How many people would you suggest to keep the systems and databases up and running ?
Rgds
Alexander M. Ermes

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Khalid A. Al-Tayaran — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:28:18 GMT

Hi,

Are the instances OLTP or data warehouses?
Are you running 24 by 7?

Obviously you need more DBA's than OS guys.

You have:
29 databases.
2 Webservers
1 BRIO server
4 HP 9000 Machines

You didn't mention the most important Oracle instances. Meaning the ones that require more attention (backup, tuning, monitoring.....)

With my humble opinion, I think you need:

1) 1 Sys admin (for 4 HP-UX Machines + OS), also another guy to cover him??
2) 1 (or 2 guys for BEA) they should be able to cover each other on vacations... or maybe let the sys admins do it. They can with proper training.
3) You'll need 2 DBA's in three shifts if you are 24 by 7. So they can share the load. Of course this assuming you will use Oracle Management Server.

4) For BRIO, I have no info.

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

twang — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:39:20 GMT

On my site, 7 oracle instances
and 2 A-400, 1 D-390 and 1 RP5430
=> only 1 DBA/SA

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Alexander M. Ermes — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:42:06 GMT

Hi there.
Some additional info :

Instances are not running OLTP or datawarehouse.

The two N4000 are clustered.
On these machines we have three instances running 24x7, but we don't do shifts ( at the moment ). In case something goes wrong one person with a cellphone ( standby ) will be called.

Khalid, your comment for shifts :

Two dba's in three shifts meaning 16 hrs per day ? Or two dba's per shift ?

Rgds
Alexander M. Ermes

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Steven E. Protter — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:47:40 GMT

1 Systems Adminstrator 1 Assistant
1 DBA 1 Assistant

You have about three times the number of instances and the same number of machines, though yours are faster.

We have 1 Sysadmin me, cross-trained in Oracle, for a year we had no dba at all.

We have 1 DBA lightly cross trained in Sysadmin.

We push our people pretty hard though.

SEP

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Alexander M. Ermes — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:51:24 GMT

Hi Steven.
Guess, what it is at my place.
The reason for this posting is, i justed wanted to know, how it is handled by others.
Rgds
Alexander M. Ermes

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Michael Tully — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:28:45 GMT

Hi Alexander,

I think it depends on a few things.

1) Does the person or person double up and do other tasks and look after other applications?

2) Are you a 24 x 7 shop?

3) if not is there on-call

We have one oracle DBA who looks after 9 instances on three servers. We also have two informix DBA looking after at least 20 instances on 3 servers.

We have Four Unix admin (including me) looking after 40 odd systems.

Two guys looks after BEA, but this is still in development.

Cheers
Michael

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Stefan Farrelly — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:35:58 GMT

In my opinion you havent got enough hardware for > 1 HP-UX Sysadmin and probably same for Oracle DB's (only 1 DBA needed - as long as theyre good). However, this causes problems if someone is on holiday or sick etc so you either need cross training (dba can do some HP-UX Sysadmin and vice versa) or you need someone to back up your DBA and SysAdmin.

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Alexander M. Ermes — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:58:47 GMT

Hi.
Just to clear the picture.
I am doing sysadmin and dba for all systems.
I have crosstrained a new guy, who mainly works on SQLServer, for HP-UX and Oracle.
This was intense training.
A third man is trained less intense, but he works as database programmer.
Both guys had the basic Oracle training courses for database administration.
We have an on-call schedule setup for the three of us.
Rgds
Alexander M. Ermes

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Robert-Jan Goossens_1 — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:50:13 GMT

Two, one very good admin and one in the learing fase.

Robert-Jan

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Khalid A. Al-Tayaran — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:06:51 GMT

Hi Alexander,

I menat 2 guys per shift.

Our env. we have 8 HP-UX machines and 4 Windows based. 4 HP machines are running Oracle databases and 2 Windows machines are also running Oracle...

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Pete Randall — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:13:38 GMT

Alexander,

You need at least two people that are well cross trained. A third person that could cover for either of the other two would be ideal. Finding such multi-talented people is the hardest part.

We're a smaller shop: 2 HP servers and a few workstations, several Informix databases, one SysAdmin/DBA, one DBA/SysAdmin, light on the cross training.

Pete

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Con O'Kelly — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:58:46 GMT

Hi Alexander

My view is that often the number of people required is related to how well the systems are setup.

If the systems have been properly setup with good system monitoring in place, smooth backup process, regular cleanup scripts, good filesystem sizing, systems that are properly sized for the workload etc etc then 1 person should easily handle the HP-UX side with time left over to get involved in DBA side of things.
Its often when backups are regularly failing, filesystems are filling up & systems are completely overloaded that you need more people.

I am not as familiar on Oracle side of things but I'd guess that 2-3 DBA's should be fine. With that in mind I say around 3 people should be enough - 2 good DBAs and a good HP-UX Admin with some Oracle knowledge.
Definitely need some cross training so can cover holidays, sickies etc.

Cheers
Con

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Khalid A. Al-Tayaran — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:07:09 GMT

I forgot to mention that we are currently two people managing these servers...

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Keith Bevan_1 — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:11:34 GMT

Alexander,

The answer to you question really depends on the scope and magnitude of system documentation,procedures and level of resiliance you want to build into day to day operations and support.

ie do you want cover when staff are off sick.
are the systems fully documented and
supported internally or externally.
Cost implications of head counts

Keith

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Keith Bevan_1 — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:37:37 GMT

Alexander,

The answer to you question really depends on the scope and magnitude of your business,the systems involved, IT documentation/procedures and level of admin work required.

You may wish to consider how much resiliance you want to build into day to day operations and support.

ie do you want cover when staff are off sick.
are the systems fully documented.
are your system supported by external
vednors or internal only.

You may also have to consider the cost
implications associated with more staff,
salaries,training etc etc.

Keith

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Keith Bevan_1 — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:45:52 GMT

Alexander,

Oops !!!!

I sent a minor revised reply after the original.

Please read the second one but as you have already assigned points to the first, I would be grateful if you would not assign any to the second one.

Keith

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

Yogeeraj_1 — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:42:17 GMT

hi,

As Robert-Jan said,
Two, one very good admin and one in the learning phase.

If your systems have been properly designed and tuned, one DBA will be sufficient.

Give him the right tools and access to all the information he need, you can be sure everything will go smoothly.

Cheers
Yogeeraj

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

doug mielke — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:19:49 GMT

we are 24 x 7, on based in US, but with offices in Asia, Australia and Europe. 600+ users.

9 HP 9000s
5 Wintel apps/Oracle servers
12 instances

1 dba
1 Apps speclst.
1 sysadm / ops manager

And when systems are set up well, and automated processes in place, it's tolorable.
New system, or problems in the mix, and we suffer. Holidays always a problem.

Re: How many people would you employ for sysadmin / dba ?

John Payne_2 — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:24:53 GMT

I think you have a pretty good setup, idealy so if you can get those guys good at sysadmin. (And good at DBA.)

I was 1 sysadmin for 50 HPUX servers. I was always busy. When I went one a trip and something really bad happened that the other UNIX sysadmins could do anything about, I dialed in. (I had to rebuild a server over a dailup at my parents house back in March. Took all night and part of the next day.)

Now we are 2 sysadmins for 50 HPUX servers. We are busy all the time, but I can leave once in a while and if something really bad happens, I know that I can at least talk someone through things, at least until he finishes his training and feels comfortable. Even though we are still very busy, it is really nice to have the backup. (I can actually relax once in a while.)

The main thing is to have redundancy. Maybe you have a backup that won't know everything to do, but you will have someone who at least understands more than just the basics. They have HPUX concepts down, and you don't have to do everything single-handedly...

Hope it helps

John