topic Predictive end of life in Operating System - HP-UX

Predictive end of life

Martha Mueller — Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:24:14 GMT

Just an informal survey about the HP letter I just received stating that Predictive will not be available for purchase with a new machine, and will be supported through June 30, 2003 ( one more year ). The replacement product is Instant Support Enterprise Edition. But, this product only runs on a Windows 2000 server. I, for one, do not like to have to introduce microsoft products in order to monitor my HP-UX servers. How do others feel?

Re: Predictive end of life

Pete Randall — Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:38:54 GMT

I'm with you, Martha. Franklly I don't think it would be reliable enough.

Re: Predictive end of life

Martha Mueller — Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:44:58 GMT

Our company has spent a lot of money consolidating servers to reduce the number of boxes that are needed to run our business. I particularly don't like the offhand way we are told to just add another server, for no reason other than HP's decree. I am finding that many of the applications HP is offering appear to be available for microsoft, but not for HP-UX. I feel like the red-headed step child.

Re: Predictive end of life

Paula J Frazer-Campbell — Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:53:29 GMT

Hi

The only viable server to monitor a HP-UX server is a HP-UX server.

Windows is not an OPERATING system, and should be investigated under the sale of goods act (UK) in that it does not do what is says on the tin.

Paula

Re: Predictive end of life

Martha Mueller — Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:54:43 GMT

Paula,

I got quite a chuckle out of that.

Thanks

Re: Predictive end of life

Pete Randall — Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:55:44 GMT

Wow, that's twice in the same day that someone's used the red-headed stepchild reference (Harry being the other) - and to think I'd never heard it before.

I'm still with you Martha, just running out of ways to say you're absolutely right.

;^)
Pete

Re: Predictive end of life

Martha Mueller — Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:57:44 GMT

Well now I have to go look up Harry's reference.

Re: Predictive end of life

Pete Randall — Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:06:48 GMT

Martha,

Sorry, I should have done that for you if I was going to refer to it:
http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,,0x79b03a7b3682d611abdb0090277a778c,00.html

Pete

Re: Predictive end of life

Martin Johnson — Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:10:10 GMT

I am annoyed and concerned. Over the last 2 years we have spent millions of dollars moving our web apps away from Microsoft to Unix, due to reliability issues with MS products. Now HP is telling us we have to go back to using MS servers? I don't think so.

As far as I am concerned, this is a strike against HP. If I need to buy a new server, and all other things being equal, I would not buy HP.

Marty

Re: Predictive end of life

Martha Mueller — Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:16:39 GMT

I'm glad to hear it's not just me. I, too, feel that there is a shrinking pool of HP-UX products. We have started branching into Solaris. We might need to continue this trend.

HP, are you listening? We HP-UX administrators want to stay with HP-UX, and not be forced to incorporate other operating systems, least of which would be windows.

Re: Predictive end of life

Mike Hassell — Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:50:11 GMT

Martha,

I think you bring up a very valid point as to Predictive support being replaced by this new ISEE product, which only runs on Windows 2000. Most of the HP-UX shops that I've been in and out of run HP-UX on HP9000 hardware for a good reasons, such as performance and stability. So in turn you would wonder why HP would force you to utilize this "service" on a Microsoft platform? When it appears that it's primary purpose is to "prevent potential critical problems", wouldn't you want it to run on an operating system and hardware that your company feels provides that type of stability in the first place?

While most of the companies that I have worked for have both MS and HP in the same datacenter, I think this type statement in the FAQ poses a bit of a problem:

"A Windows 2000 Server is required. This is the only qualified platform that HP plans to support."

http://www.hp.com/hps/briefs/customerfaqs.pdf

Is HP going to help you cover the additional hardware and licensing costs for this new Windows 2000 server? I think not. :-)

-Mike

Re: Predictive end of life

dirk dierickx — Fri, 21 Jun 2002 03:58:38 GMT

Like all of you, I just think it is outrageous.
How can they demand us to introduce another machine into our own network, and on top of that, it's a windows machine.
I don't know about you guys, but I am _not_ a windows admin, I don't use it, I don't have it. And i surely don't know how to administer such a machine properly.
My greatest fear will not be the stability issue of this 'server', but _security_ wise. remember that this machine can also be used as some kind of 'gateway' to your whole HPUX environment. Does anybody here know how to secure a NT box? and even more important, to keep it secure? I sure don't.
Just for the sake of analogy, SUN has about the same service for their customers like the HP ISEE, but I don't see them using some half-baked windows creation.

(this is not the first time I am this pissed about HP doing this. as far as i know (and as they told me) VantagePoint Reporter is also windows only. Result: i'll make my own 'reporter' web/perl interface. And last but not least - omniback, which is available on hpux, BUT they had to make it look like the NT version, result - a gui that is slow crashes and everybody complaining about it.)

Re: Predictive end of life

Steven Sim Kok Leong — Fri, 21 Jun 2002 04:49:49 GMT

Hi,

In two weeks time, HP will be coming down to my company to perform a presentation on ISEE and its benefits.

One advantage is that it gets rid of the dedicated phone line and modem.

We will probably be testing it out on a test server to verify whether it is sufficiently secure and robust for our needs.

If I still remember this thread then, I will post up the findings.

Hope this helps. Regards.

Steven Sim Kok Leong

Re: Predictive end of life

Pete Randall — Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:19:21 GMT

Remember - if you're going to HPWorld in September, bring this issue up with every HP person you see. Go to the roundtables, go to SIG SysAdmin, the HP management will be there and they do listen, eventually. HP is at a critical juncture in it's ongoing development and advocacy through HPWorld (and this forum) is our best chance to influence HP's chosen direction. Scream loud and often.

Pete

Re: Predictive end of life

Nick Wickens — Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:16:17 GMT

Just reading through the bumpf that our account manager dropped off about ISEE and it looks like it comes in two flavours - Small enterprise and data center.

Small enterprise does not require the SPOP at the customer site (so no Micro$oft incursion) but is apparently designed for environments with a smaller number of supported servers and mid-range storage devices. If I guess rightly then this edition will therefore be closer to the existing predict methodology of monitoring so all we have to do is insist on installing small enterprise configurations even on big sites. If no one takes up the data center configuration then perhaps HP will notice.

Re: Predictive end of life

Martha Mueller — Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:45:52 GMT

This just in.....I know I'm surprised....

Document ID: HPSBUX0207-201
Date Loaded: 20020717
Title: Sec. Vulnerability in ISEE on HP-UX

------------------------------------------------------------------------
HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY SECURITY ADVISORY: #0201,
Originally issued: 18 July 2002

PROBLEM: HP Instant Support Enterprise Edition (ISEE) has the potential
of allowing authenticated users access to restriced files.

Re: Predictive end of life

Cheryl Griffin — Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:55:33 GMT

You may find some links from here useful:
http://www.hp.com/hps/tech/resources/elect/isee_products.htm

Cheryl

Re: Predictive end of life

Misa — Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:05:18 GMT

I'm discussing this with several HP people early next week. I can't remember, but I think one of them has a relationship to product development -- so please, everyone, post your concerns (or kudos).

I have yet to see this product or hear tons about it, but I'm under the impression that it a) wants a connection through our (and HP's!) firewall, and b) will run a web server on the host. Neither are acceptable to me.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

--Misa

Re: Predictive end of life

Martha Mueller — Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:13:14 GMT

Misa,

Thank you for taking the time to carry our concerns to the relevant parties. I have been complaining to our CE, but he doesn't have any influence or route to the decision makers. I hope that HP gets the message that many of us choose to be unix administrators without having to baby-sit the windows platforms. It just seems counter intuitive to say that our unix server's hardware needs to be managed by a windows server...one that is accessable via the internet at that!

Re: Predictive end of life

John Payne_2 — Sat, 20 Jul 2002 13:09:51 GMT

I think that being in control of my 'predictive' like events in a central place is a very large plus. Also, not needing an analog line for the box is a large plus also. (We do not run sendmail on our boxes, and the predictive responces get lost either in the firewall or the mail server...) Also, many machines we are buying now just do not have modems.

Now, as far as how well it works, I do not know. I have not had time to look at it and see. Hopefully I will have time before HP World...

That it is on a Win2000 server is not that big of a deal for me, but I do not see why they couldn't port to HPUX... Pete is right. Everyone who is concerned about it and is going to HP World should bring it up to everyone they talk to about it. (And especially at the roundtables. Sometimes it can be like a mob mentallity in there, when everyone gets fired up about something. People tend to listen then...)

Hope it helps

John