topic Re: linux & hp-ux differences? in Operating System - HP-UX

linux & hp-ux differences?

jazz_1 — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:37:16 GMT

hi,

what are the differences between the 2 operating systems?

j

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

Pete Randall — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:42:33 GMT

j,

First, there's no "l" in HP-UX.

Second, they run on different hardware (with the notable exception of the Itanium Processor Family).

They have some subtle command differences but not much.

HP-UX is heavy duty, 24x7, non-stop, industrial strength. Linux is still trying to achieve that sort of quality.

Pete

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

jazz_1 — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:47:42 GMT

thanks pete

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

Darren Prior — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:14:40 GMT

Hi Jazz,

Pete also forgot to mention that there is also no L in HP-UX!

On a more serious note, there are distributions of linux available for little or no money - which is not the case for HP-UX which must be bought from HP or a reseller and licensed.

regards,

Darren.

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

Pete Randall — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:22:01 GMT

Darren,

I used the lowercase version. It probably looks more like an i (eye) or something.

Pete

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

Darren Prior — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:25:05 GMT

Pete - I knew I should have picked the N! That'll teach me for having such tiny fonts.

regards,

Darren.

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

Steven E. Protter — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:34:53 GMT

Big difference is LVM.

You can use LVM to mirror with HP-UX, which is really important, though you have to buy it. I Don't think LVM is available in the Linux version.

Other topics.

Linux lets you do things with the crontab schedule that is not generally accepted in the Unix community. They are trying to set a standard, but people move their crontabs to HP-UX and are surprised when they don't work.

I think HP-UX, properly patched can not be beaten on reliablity. It scales nicely, I really like it.

Oracle and Red Hat and a few other Linux vendors are working very hard to make Linux World Class with how it runs Oracle's database and applications. Usually it requires more Intel processors to equal the performance of PA-RISC HP-UX and Oracle's licensing runs $40,000-$60,000 per CPU.

It can get pricey FAST!!!

HP-UX has Ignite, probably the best Disaster Recovery/Software Installation tool I've ever used. Linux has mondo and mindi, but I've not tested it. I trust Ignite with my job.

SEP

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

twang — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:39:17 GMT

Hi,
Take a look at this thread:
http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/0,,0xddea585fae8bd711abdc0090277a778c,00.html

regards

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

Pete Randall — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:54:58 GMT

LVM is available in Linux - has been for a couple of years. I think Steven may be referring to the MirrorDisk/UX product that allows logical volume mirroring in HP-UX. That, I don't believe, is available in Linux.

Pete

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

Michael Steele_2 — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:00:11 GMT

Disposable Servers:

LINUX managers go LINUX because of its cheapness and the term 'disposable server' has evolved because of this. An O/S reinstall is usually the only way to fix problems that evolve from degradation over time.

LINUX O/S Loaders:

On the Intel platform PC firmware is going to be an issue. BIOS is vastly inferior to PA-RISC or SPARC firmware. You can network boot from 'lilo', you need 'grub' while these are firmware utilities in PA-RISC and SPARC. This is why there are so many LINUX O/S loaders like 'lilo' and 'grub'.

IDE vs. SCSI:

IDE is awful. With SCSI you can load your O/S on one SCSI disk and your applications on other SCSI disks, but because of CMOS and BIOS in IDE everything goes on controller 0's master disk. Terrible performance.

Diagnostic Utilities:

Goes along with 'disposable servers' since diagnostics are almost unheard of in LINUX, or at best, they're in their infancy. Red Hat 8 and 9 are just now being released with some basic commands.

And nothing beats LVM for reliability, not even VXVM.

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

Martin Johnson — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:28:15 GMT

There is more business software for HPUX than Linux. Much of the software that we run on HPUX does not currently run on Linux.

Linux's major selling point is that Linux on a PC is MUCH cheaper than HPUX on a HP9000. But if it doesn't run your applications, it is worthless.

HTH
Marty

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

doug mielke — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:35:15 GMT

HOLY COW! ( cash cow, that is)
SEP, what a great point.
If Oracle pricing per proccesor not cheaper on Intel then that explains the recent flashy overtures Oracle seem to be making to the Lynix community. Cheap multi x multi intel servers could make Ellison rich. ( ha )

BTW: A common Happy Hour debate here is over the proper pronunciation of Lynix.
( When I saw an interview with the Master, he introduced himself such that his name rhymed with Guinness.)

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

Pete Randall — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:40:55 GMT

Doug,

All the Linux session I've been to have pronounced it that way (rhyming with Guiness, rather than rhyming with wine). Linus himself pronounces it that way, so I guess that pretty much settles that debate.

Pete

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

John Poff — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:04:01 GMT

Hi,

In regards to the Intel vs. PA-RISC comparison, I have very recently been involved in a test here for a new application that will be running on Linux. The application uses an Oracle database.

We originally loaded it on an 8-way N4000 box (550Mhz CPUs I think) running 11i, connected to an FC10 disk array and ran the application [after a bit of tuning] in 1 hour and 45 minutes. We just loaded the same application on an IBM x345 with 2 Xeon 2.8Ghz CPUs and 8 Gb of RAM, running RedHat AS 2.1 and using an internal RAID5 array. The application ran in 2 hours and 5 minutes, straight up, without tweaking the OS or Oracle.

I am as big a fan of HP and HP-UX as anybody else out here. There are still large, critical applications that belong on big HP systems, but the Intel CPUs and Linux have come a long way in a short time.

As for reliability, I have some small Intel boxes that run Linux for months on end. I have one box that is halfway across the country, running on an old HP Kayak that was abandoned two years ago by our desktop team because it was too slow to run the latest Windows. I salvaged it, loaded RedHat 7.0 on it, and it does a great job as a file server [Samba] and an ftp and print server. It has only been down once in the last 27 months, for a planned power outage. For the right applications, Linux is a great fit.

The requirement for our project is that this application run in two hours or less. I wonder which way they are going to go now? ;)

JP

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

doug mielke — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:33:35 GMT

thanks Pete, for taking away yet another reason for me to go to Happy Hour.

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

doug mielke — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:35:22 GMT

thanks Pete, for taking away yet another reason for me to go to Happy Hour.

Now If we can just get SCO Group ( Bill Gates??) to cease it's attack on Lynix.

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

Pete Randall — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:22:07 GMT

Sorry, Doug, but I thought I was just echoing the conclusion you'd reached already. I, for one, would never want to ruin happy hour (or happy evening/day/week/month/year/life) for anybody.

;^)

Pete

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

Caesar_3 — Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:50:06 GMT

Hello!

First in HPUX there is no Lin.

Linux it's open source it's mean that you
can change the system as you like.
You can build new system from nothing.

Linux became more popular in the world.

HP give a full suport for his OS as for
linux it's difrent.

Caesar

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

kenny chia — Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:42:33 GMT

One costs a bomb while the other is free..

The quantity of software utilities available for Linux is more than HPUX but in terms of quality and workability, HPUX software is better (eg ignite and SAM)

Re: linux & hp-ux differences?

Stefan Farrelly — Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:19:06 GMT

JP has a very interesting comment about Oracle and performance differences on HP-UX v Linix. Were a big Oracle house and if Oracle licenses were cheaper on Linux than HP-UX we would certainly be trialing some.

As for Linux not being industrial strength - it damn well is - what do you think amazon.com runs on ? A huge cluster of Linux boxes all running clustering software, managed by HP. Thats all 7x24 non stop, and very reliable. A node drops and its simply removed from the cluster and another one added in.