topic Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE in Operating System - HP-UX

PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Shannon Petry — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:58:51 GMT

I would like to see an addition to this to stop members from spamming questions with point concerns. In one post, I saw 3 comments from members with no other information.

From post "http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,,0x79b24a988422d711abdc0090277a778c,00.html"

--RAVI--

January 14, 2003 11:10 AM GMT [ unassigned ]
Hi, guys

Think twice before answering this guy posting.
I never seen this guy assigning point

--Jochen Heuer--

January 14, 2003 12:19 PM GMT [ unassigned ]

Hi Cheung,

maybe this helps:

http://66.216.15.50/ITRCForumsEtiquette/

--harry d brown jr--
January 14, 2003 12:53 PM GMT [ unassigned ]
Cheung,

You should take care of this:

This member has assigned points to 98 of 186 responses to his/her questions.

You can find your previous posts in your profile:

http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/TopSolutions/1,,CA877098!1!questions,00.html

It's pathetic that you have to be continously reminded!

live free or die
harry

It is a members right to answer questions or not answer questions. It is NOT your right to spam a question because in your opinion someone has not given out enough points.

If it bothers you, dont answer the questions. When you spam a question, whom does this benefit besides your own ego? The answer to this is "noone".

The forums are here to help people. Please feed your ego's somewhere else!

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Patrick Wallek — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:11:48 GMT

Shannon,

I will think about doing this. I haven't made my mind up yet as to whether or not this is appropriate etiquette material.

I'm not promising anything one way or the other at this point.

Patrick

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Stefan Farrelly — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:15:47 GMT

It gets my vote as being span and should be discouraged.

Instead, how about we get Procura to produce another stats list each week/month - those who have assigned the least points to his/her qustions? sort of name and shame them.

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Eugeny Brychkov — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:15:57 GMT

Generally I agree with this point, BUT...
then I would like to ask Dan to insert one more page when user is registering to the forum: page where it's written "it's highly recommended to assign points...". For now we have link on main page 'how to assign points', but I'm not sure that people is reading it. So I would propose to insert this page into registration process with 'read acknowledged' button to be sure that person get acquainted with the policy
Eugeny

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Stefan Farrelly — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:16:02 GMT

It gets my vote as being spam and should be discouraged.

Instead, how about we get Procura to produce another stats list each week/month - those who have assigned the least points to his/her qustions? sort of name and shame them.

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Marco Santerre — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:23:05 GMT

I know that I'm fairly new here but I'd have to agree with Shannon. Isn't defeating the whole purpose of this forum if we are not sharing the wealth because such and such is not assigning points to his questions?

I do love the points. I find they are a great way to encourage people for answers. Unfortuantely, it seems that the tables have turned and now it is a way to find who "deserves" to have an answer and who doesn't.

I love this forum for what it brought me... knowledge. The points are only a bonus. So i'd have to agree with Shannon, it is spam.

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Jochen Heuer — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:32:55 GMT

Hi Shannon,

I don't think this is (only) about points, hats, egos or whatever. It is more about finding out if a question is answered or not. And if you do search the forums you can find out *which* answer solved the problem lateron.

But doing this multiple times in one thread is not good either, I agree.

Regards,

Jochen

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

James R. Ferguson — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:36:14 GMT

Hi Shannon:

Yes, I absolutely agree with you. Points are intended for "thanks" (in whatever form you look for them) and as "bread-crumbs" for finding the "best" answers much later in time.

The old adage, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." applies here.

Personally, I don't want to have to read the spam either. Worse, is my fear (and some anecdotal evidence) that threatening and begging for points achieves the opposite of what we ideally seek; viz. threads full of rabbits for garbage answers.

Regards!

...JRF...

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Frank Slootweg — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:10:12 GMT

Some thoughts from The Other Side (tm):

In my opinion, a "name and shame" list is inappropriate and such a list in itself can be considered abuse.

Regarding (Eugeny's) "getting acquainted with the policy":

The policy reminders are 'splattered' all over the place. IIRC, at least when you post your first post and in each and every e-mail notification. Perhaps none of the 'offenders' use e-mail notification, but I strongly doubt it. So people *are* informed about the policy. No use to inform them in ever more places.

Regarding (Jochen's) "It is more about finding out if a question is answered or not. And if you do search the forums you can find out *which* answer solved the problem later on.":

If that is why people are 'hammering' on points, then why don't they just *say so*?

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

John Payne_2 — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:18:25 GMT

It's upsetting to see people who do this and do not answer the question. They have taken the time to read the question and hit the reply button, and generally it is people who should know the answers being asked, but they do not answer the question. The main thing that needs to happen here is the questiosn people have need to be answered. (In my opinion...)

John

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Rainer von Bongartz — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:19:12 GMT

Hi Shannon,

I fully support your idea !!!

It really is annoying reading post from always the same people complaining about 'This guy did no assign points to x of y questions'

Perhaps the corresponding statistics should be removed.
I never check if a guy assigned points to previous questions before I answer.
So what is the statistic useful for ???

People who take part into this forum only for getting points should ask themself again what this forum is for....

Regards
Rainer

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Sridhar Bhaskarla — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:25:58 GMT

Hi Shannon,

I completely agree with you that it is a member's right to answer questions or not answer questions.

But without the point system, I don't know how well it will work completely on *voluntary* basis. I feel there must be competition in everything we do together to get the quality out. I do believe that point system is one thing that is causing more people to participate here.

It is sometimes annoying to see people pressing for points. At the same time it is also annoying to see some people who received help *ignoring* the time spent by others. And the time it takes to assign points is negligible when compared to that of posting a solution and sharing one's knowledge.

Assigning points is not only to express thanks but also to scale the responses. This is really going to help other members in future to determine the quality of the answer when they look at the thread later.

I don't know if we want to necessarily call it as ego. It may be competitive spirit needed for a quality environment. If there are only few members responding, then there is a good chance that my mistakes be treated as good solutions.

A *polite* reminder to consider this forum's policies may not be treated as spam.

-Sri

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Shannon Petry — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:36:15 GMT

Okay, first as you can see I'm not giving points, no offense but this topic is debated amongst the high contributors and will interest very few outside of that.

Second, nowhere did I mention that points are not valuable, nor that they have no purpose. Do not confuse the issues.

The issue is simply that I am tired of seeing spam in peoples questions about points. I dont care the reason you may or may not want them.

Comments about points do not belong in a users thread as SPAM!

Sorry, but in the example I gave can you give me any beneficial information from any of the three names mentioned that was not Spam?

One of the comments was given with the exclusive purpose of telling members not to help!

Regards,
Shannon

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

John Bolene — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:36:48 GMT

This is a fairly free opinion system in a free country with free speech.

Everyone has an opinion, some voice them, some gripe about other's opinions.

Now I have to ask...why gripe about the gripers?

Fairly pointless and only gives them something else to gripe about.

Just turn the other cheek and don't post that gripe.

2 cents given to charity

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

V. Nyga — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:39:17 GMT

Hi Shannon,

in this case your right, one reminder should be enough.

But also one item to Frank and the others:
Only by assigning points and first of all by assigning a bunny everybody knows, if a problem is solved.
I can't believe that the pointing system is so difficult!
But it seems to be a neverending story...
Harry is a very aktiv user who always wants to help and I think for him (and me) it is
very nerving to open a thread where the problem is solved and the man says 'Thanks' but he isn't 'closing' his thread.

Maybe also a problem that this forum is very slow compared to other websides. Because many questions are read from members who want to help, but where the problem is already solved.

Only my thought?

Keep on foruming!
Volkma

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Jochen Heuer — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:41:43 GMT

Hi Sri, I could not phrase it better!

And maybe it's better to remove the option to check how many answers have no points assigned to them. On the other side I think there was a reason why these stats have been implemented. Or have they been there since the beginning of these forums?

I myself find 0 points assigned to my answer better then unassigned! Then at least you know that your answer did not help :-) But you are right that a message with the sole purpose to remind someone of the pointing system has no value either ...

One last point from my side: politeness is something that has to be held high in these forums otherwise we could participate in newsgroups with their raging flamewars ... (That's what I like most about this forum!)

Regards,

Joche

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Carlos Fernandez Riera — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:59:00 GMT

Hi Shannon:

yes, I am really bored of this kind of questions. I said some time ago that it have become a co-side damage of the forum, and still think so. It have been dicused so many times that i avoid to write to these threads.

The only one reason that make me write now is that i consider you an old contributor, and just want to say you:
dont spend more time about this.

Thank for N/A.

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Carlos Fernandez Riera — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:00:48 GMT

BTW: see if you like....

http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,,0xf1174b3ef09fd611abdb0090277a778c,00.html

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

H.Merijn Brand (procura — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:16:42 GMT

It's easy to re-order the list like that, but I won't post it (read Frank's message).

General statistics:

00 .. 09 % 688
10 .. 19 % 163
20 .. 29 % 214
30 .. 39 % 231
40 .. 49 % 194
50 .. 59 % 332
60 .. 69 % 280
70 .. 79 % 214
80 .. 89 % 265
90 .. 99 % 218
100 .. 109 % 739
120 .. 129 % 2

Avarage: 54.5 %

This excludes the members that never asked a question.

Re: PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

Kimberly Ann — Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:16:28 GMT

Shannon, et al,

The free forums exist so that a community of like-minded professionals can exchange knowledge, experiences, best practices, and the occasional script within an online community.

As simple as points are, they cause quite a stir. They are as free as the forums themselves, yet some people are reluctant to use them for whatever reason. That is their prerogative. Points are not an entitlement for repliers. Please remember that the primary purpose of points is to provide authors a way of saying thanks AND for indicating a solution was provided. Although HIGHLY encouraged, assigning points is not a requirement to participate in the forums.

Please keep in mind the forums are a place to share knowledge, experience and best practices, and consider points to be a bonus. Shannon and other members of the community are voicing their displeasure with spamming by 'point mongers'. I encourage others to please follow suit.

Regards,
Dan
Forums Manager