topic Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0 in Operating System - OpenVMS

Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

EdgarZamora_1 — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:19:11 GMT

I installed TCPIP 5.7 ECO1 and PCSI 3.0 then rebooted. I then installed UPDATE 15.0 (and some other minor kits) then rebooted again. Now I'm trying to install MANAGE 4.0 but it's complaining...

SOURCE> prod sho hist * /sin=today
------------------------------------ ----------- ----------- --- -----------
PRODUCT KIT TYPE OPERATION VAL DATE
------------------------------------ ----------- ----------- --- -----------
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_ACMELDAP V4.0 Patch Install Val 11-JAN-2011
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_BACKUP V5.0 Patch Install Val 11-JAN-2011
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_DDTM V2.0 Patch Install Val 11-JAN-2011
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_ENCRYPT V2.0 Patch Install Val 11-JAN-2011
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_UPDATE V15.0 Patch Install Val 11-JAN-2011
DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.7-13ECO1 Full LP Install Val 11-JAN-2011
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_PCSI V3.0 Patch Install Val 11-JAN-2011
DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.6-9ECO4 Full LP Remove - 11-JAN-2011
------------------------------------ ----------- ----------- --- -----------
8 items found
SOURCE>
SOURCE> product install *manage*

Performing product kit validation of signed kits ...
%PCSI-I-VALPASSED, validation of $1$DGA2015:[USERS.][EZAMORA.PATCHES]DEC-AXPVMS-
VMS83A_MANAGE-V0400--4.PCSI$COMPRESSED;1 succeeded

The following product has been selected:
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_MANAGE V4.0 Patch (remedial update)

Do you want to continue? [YES] y

Configuration phase starting ...

You will be asked to choose options, if any, for each selected product and for
any products that may be installed to satisfy software dependency requirements.

Configuring DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_MANAGE V4.0: OpenVMS V8.3 MANAGE V4.0

Recovery data will be saved which will allow you to un-install
this kit. In the past, kit installations provided some level
of recovery capability by renaming all replaced files to
file_name.ext_OLD. If you wish, you can continue to do this.

Note that this will triple the disk space required for
this kit - one for the installed files, once for the saved
recovery data and once for the file_name.ext_OLD files.

Do you wish to have replaced files renamed
to file_name.ext_OLD [NO] ?:

Files will not be renamed

* This product does not have any configuration options.

<< System Disk Backup >>

This kit will make functional changes to your system.
Before installing this kit you should make a backup
copy of your system disk. If you do not make a copy
of your system disk you will not be able to restore
your system to a pre-kit installation state.

Do you want to continue? [YES]

Installing this patch kit requires a reboot.

Hewlett Packard strongly recommends that you reboot your
system immediately after installation of this kit. The
images in this kit will not fully take effect until the
system is rebooted. However, if you do not re-boot
immediately after kit installation, the system may become
unstable and may not function as expected.

If you have other nodes in your VMS cluster, they must also
be rebooted in order to make use of the new image(s). If it
is not possible or convenient to reboot the entire cluster
at this time, a rolling re-boot (kit installation and reboot
on one node at a time) may be performed.

Do you want to continue? [YES]

Execution phase starting ...

The following product will be installed to destination:
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_MANAGE V4.0 DISK$SOURCESYS:[VMS$COMMON.]

*** KIT WILL NOT BE INSTALLED ***

In order to install the VMS83A_MANAGE-V0400 kit, you must have
the VMS83A_PCSI-V0200,VMS83A_SYS-V1900 and VMS83A_UPDATE-V1300 (or later) kits
installed. Installed kits can be verified with a
PROD SHO HISTORY command.

Kits can be downloaded from the world wide web at:

http://www.itrc.hp.com/service/patch/mainPage.do

Kits are also available via FTP from:

ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/

Installation aborting.

Portion done: 0%

Recovery pass starting ...

Recovery pass concluded

%PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failed
%PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error condition
SOURCE>

I think I meet all the requirements... PCSI 2.0 or later (I installed PCSI 3.0 and rebooted; could it be SYS 19.0 (supposed to be included in UPDATE 15.0 which I installed and rebooted); or could it be UPDATE 13.0 or later (No, i just installed UPDATE 15.0 and rebooted).

Patching VMS has become an adventure lately, especially if you don't do it frequently enough. I bet if I install UPDATE 13.0 first, then install UPDATE 15.0 it will work... going to test that now...

Re: Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

EdgarZamora_1 — Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:59:53 GMT

The "culprit" was SYS 19.0. I had to specifically install it (even though it's included in UPDATE 15.0)...

SOURCE> PROD INSTALL *MANAGE*

Performing product kit validation of signed kits ...
%PCSI-I-VALPASSED, validation of $1$DGA2015:[USERS.][EZAMORA.PATCHES]DEC-AXPVMS-
VMS83A_MANAGE-V0400--4.PCSI$COMPRESSED;1 succeeded

The following product has been selected:
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_MANAGE V4.0 Patch (remedial update)

Do you want to continue? [YES]

Configuration phase starting ...

You will be asked to choose options, if any, for each selected product and for
any products that may be installed to satisfy software dependency requirements.

Configuring DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_MANAGE V4.0: OpenVMS V8.3 MANAGE V4.0

Recovery data will be saved which will allow you to un-install
this kit. In the past, kit installations provided some level
of recovery capability by renaming all replaced files to
file_name.ext_OLD. If you wish, you can continue to do this.

Note that this will triple the disk space required for
this kit - one for the installed files, once for the saved
recovery data and once for the file_name.ext_OLD files.

Do you wish to have replaced files renamed
to file_name.ext_OLD [NO] ?:

Files will not be renamed

* This product does not have any configuration options.

<< System Disk Backup >>

This kit will make functional changes to your system.
Before installing this kit you should make a backup
copy of your system disk. If you do not make a copy
of your system disk you will not be able to restore
your system to a pre-kit installation state.

Do you want to continue? [YES]

Installing this patch kit requires a reboot.

Hewlett Packard strongly recommends that you reboot your
system immediately after installation of this kit. The
images in this kit will not fully take effect until the
system is rebooted. However, if you do not re-boot
immediately after kit installation, the system may become
unstable and may not function as expected.

If you have other nodes in your VMS cluster, they must also
be rebooted in order to make use of the new image(s). If it
is not possible or convenient to reboot the entire cluster
at this time, a rolling re-boot (kit installation and reboot
on one node at a time) may be performed.

Do you want to continue? [YES]

Execution phase starting ...

The following product will be installed to destination:
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_MANAGE V4.0 DISK$SOURCESYS:[VMS$COMMON.]

*** KIT WILL NOT BE INSTALLED ***

In order to install the VMS83A_MANAGE-V0400 kit, you must have
the VMS83A_PCSI-V0200,VMS83A_SYS-V1900 and VMS83A_UPDATE-V1300 (or later) kits
installed. Installed kits can be verified with a
PROD SHO HISTORY command.

Kits can be downloaded from the world wide web at:

http://www.itrc.hp.com/service/patch/mainPage.do

Kits are also available via FTP from:

ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/

Installation aborting.

Portion done: 0%

Recovery pass starting ...

Recovery pass concluded

%PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failed
%PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error condition

SOURCE> RUN VMS83A_SYS-V1900.ZIPEXE
UnZipSFX 5.42 of 14 January 2001, by Info-ZIP (Zip-Bugs@lists.wku.edu).
inflating: dec-axpvms-vms83a_sys-v1900--4.pcsi$compressed
inflating: dec-axpvms-vms83a_sys-v1900--4.pcsi$compressed_esw
SOURCE> PROD INSTALL *SYS*

Performing product kit validation of signed kits ...
%PCSI-I-VALPASSED, validation of $1$DGA2015:[USERS.][EZAMORA.PATCHES]DEC-AXPVMS-
VMS83A_SYS-V1900--4.PCSI$COMPRESSED;1 succeeded

The following product has been selected:
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_SYS V19.0 Patch (remedial update)

Do you want to continue? [YES]

Configuration phase starting ...

You will be asked to choose options, if any, for each selected product and for
any products that may be installed to satisfy software dependency requirements.

Configuring DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_SYS V19.0: OpenVMS V8.3 SYS V19.0

Recovery data will be saved which will allow you to un-install
this kit. In the past, kit installations provided some level
of recovery capability by renaming all replaced files to
file_name.ext_OLD. If you wish, you can continue to do this.

Note that this will triple the disk space required for
this kit - one for the installed files, once for the saved
recovery data and once for the file_name.ext_OLD files.

Do you wish to have replaced files renamed
to file_name.ext_OLD [NO] ?:

Files will not be renamed

* This product does not have any configuration options.

<< System Disk Backup >>

This kit will make functional changes to your system.
Before installing this kit you should make a backup
copy of your system disk. If you do not make a copy
of your system disk you will not be able to restore
your system to a pre-kit installation state.

Do you want to continue? [YES]

Installing this patch kit requires a reboot.

Hewlett Packard strongly recommends that you reboot your
system immediately after installation of this kit. The
images in this kit will not fully take effect until the
system is rebooted. However, if you do not re-boot
immediately after kit installation, the system may become
unstable and may not function as expected.

If you have other nodes in your VMS cluster, they must also
be rebooted in order to make use of the new image(s). If it
is not possible or convenient to reboot the entire cluster
at this time, a rolling re-boot (kit installation and reboot
on one node at a time) may be performed.

Do you want to continue? [YES]

Execution phase starting ...

The following product will be installed to destination:
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_SYS V19.0 DISK$SOURCESYS:[VMS$COMMON.]
%PCSI-I-RETAIN, file [SYS$LDR]SYS$CLUSTER.STB was not replaced because file from
kit has lower generation number
%PCSI-I-RETAIN, file [SYS$LDR]SYS$CLUSTER_MON.EXE was not replaced because file
from kit has lower generation number
%PCSI-I-RETAIN, file [SYS$LDR]SYS$CLUSTER_MON.STB was not replaced because file
from kit has lower generation number

Portion done: 0%...10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...70%...80%...90%...100%

The following product has been installed (and a recovery data set created):
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_SYS V19.0 Patch (maintenance update)

DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_SYS V19.0: OpenVMS V8.3 SYS V19.0

VMS83A_SYS-V1900 Release notes available

Release notes for the VMS83A_SYS-V1900 kit are available
at SYS$COMMON:[000000.SYSHLP]

SOURCE> PROD INSTALL *MANAGE*

Performing product kit validation of signed kits ...
%PCSI-I-VALPASSED, validation of $1$DGA2015:[USERS.][EZAMORA.PATCHES]DEC-AXPVMS-
VMS83A_MANAGE-V0400--4.PCSI$COMPRESSED;1 succeeded

The following product has been selected:
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_MANAGE V4.0 Patch (remedial update)

Do you want to continue? [YES]

Configuration phase starting ...

You will be asked to choose options, if any, for each selected product and for
any products that may be installed to satisfy software dependency requirements.

Configuring DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_MANAGE V4.0: OpenVMS V8.3 MANAGE V4.0

Recovery data will be saved which will allow you to un-install
this kit. In the past, kit installations provided some level
of recovery capability by renaming all replaced files to
file_name.ext_OLD. If you wish, you can continue to do this.

Note that this will triple the disk space required for
this kit - one for the installed files, once for the saved
recovery data and once for the file_name.ext_OLD files.

Do you wish to have replaced files renamed
to file_name.ext_OLD [NO] ?:

Files will not be renamed

* This product does not have any configuration options.

<< System Disk Backup >>

This kit will make functional changes to your system.
Before installing this kit you should make a backup
copy of your system disk. If you do not make a copy
of your system disk you will not be able to restore
your system to a pre-kit installation state.

Do you want to continue? [YES]

Installing this patch kit requires a reboot.

Hewlett Packard strongly recommends that you reboot your
system immediately after installation of this kit. The
images in this kit will not fully take effect until the
system is rebooted. However, if you do not re-boot
immediately after kit installation, the system may become
unstable and may not function as expected.

If you have other nodes in your VMS cluster, they must also
be rebooted in order to make use of the new image(s). If it
is not possible or convenient to reboot the entire cluster
at this time, a rolling re-boot (kit installation and reboot
on one node at a time) may be performed.

Do you want to continue? [YES]

Execution phase starting ...

The following product will be installed to destination:
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_MANAGE V4.0 DISK$SOURCESYS:[VMS$COMMON.]

Portion done: 0%...10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...80%...90%...100%

The following product has been installed (and a recovery data set created):
DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_MANAGE V4.0 Patch (maintenance update)

DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_MANAGE V4.0: OpenVMS V8.3 MANAGE V4.0

VMS83A_MANAGE-V0400 Release notes available

Release notes for the VMS83A_MANAGE-V0400 kit are available
at SYS$COMMON:[000000.SYSHLP]

SOURCE>

Re: Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

P Muralidhar Kini — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:32:27 GMT

Hi Edgar,

>> The "culprit" was SYS 19.0. I had to specifically install it (even though it's
>> included in UPDATE 15.0)...
Yes, thats correct.

Check the following thread for a discussion on a similar problem with
VMS732_MANAGE-V0800, VMS83A_MANAGE-V0400
http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/System-Management/VMS732-Manage-v8/m-p/4721007#M28097

Regards,
Murali

Re: Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

EdgarZamora_1 — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:33:15 GMT

Thank you, Murali. I thought I had seen a previous related post but I wasn't able to find that post successfully. Maybe for the future HP could specifically state in the Summary Information for the kit that a particular patch has to be specifically installed first. The only Mandatory kit dependency mentioned for UPDATE 15.0 is PCSI 3.0.

Re: Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

Steve Reece_3 — Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:58:26 GMT

It strikes me that somebody's lost the art of checking all of the prerequisite options and, instead, is just going for the easiest path.
I thought UPDATE kits were meant to remove the need to install separate patch kits? Plus I thought kits shouldn't lose the functionality of earlier kits in the same area (e.g. SYS19 shouldn't lose fixes in SYS8 unless it's specifically highlighted in the release notes)?

Re: Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

Proliant VMS San Mgrs — Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:42:24 GMT

I was hit by this as well. It is the accepted, but surprising, behavior of the PCSI code that maintains the database. When the update patch runs, the only product that is noted in the database is the update_v1500 itself, not any of the rolled-up patches included, such as SYS-V1900 in this specific instance.

Please send a message to the office of OpenVMS Programs. They are interested to hear from others who have been affected by this; copy Bill Pederson at ConnectCommunity pedersen@ccsscorp.com.If you wish, reference my HP support case 4624580774

Re: Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

P Muralidhar Kini — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 04:57:39 GMT

Hi Edgar,

>> Maybe for the future HP could specifically state in the Summary Information
>> for the kit that a particular patch has to be specifically installed first.
I have forwarded your suggestion to the concerned team here.
They are working on a best possible way to handle this issue.

>> Please send a message to the office of OpenVMS Programs.
>> They are interested to hear from others who have been affected by this
Yes, thats a good idea as well. In case you dont have the email id - OpenVMS.Programs@hp.com

Regards,
Murali

Re: Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

Robert Gezelter — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 07:16:25 GMT

Edgar,

Thank you for posting the details.

In addition to what has been said, I note that the text concerning rebooting is likely poorly phrased, to wit:

"If you have other nodes in your VMS cluster, they must also be rebooted in order to make use of the new image(s). If it is not possible or convenient to reboot the entire cluster at this time, a rolling re-boot (kit installation and reboot on one node at a time) may be performed."

The most likely correct interpretation is likely:

"If you have other nodes in your VMS cluster CURRENTLY RUNNING USING THE SAME SYSTEM DISK, they must also be rebooted in order to make use of the new image(s). If it is not possible or convenient to reboot [the entire cluster] THESE NODES at this time, a rolling re-boot (kit installation and reboot on one node at a time) may be performed." (Deletions in "[]", insertions in UPPER CASE.

Admittedly, sophisticated system managers are not likely to misunderstand, but there are many with less experience who could be mislead by this wording.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

Re: Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

Steven Schweda — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:00:18 GMT

> [...] poorly phrased [...]

My recollection is no guarantee, but, as I
recall, I've been ignoring an instruction
like that for about as long as I can
remember. (All my cluster members have their
own system disks.) I assume that everyone
else has also figured it out, but making it
accurate probably wouldn't hurt. Wouldn't be
the first thing I'd fix, though. Perhaps for
the wish list for V8.5? (Which I may never
see, the way things have been going lately.)

Re: Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

Robert Gezelter — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 15:53:53 GMT

Steve,

Agreed. However, quite a few questions have recently been from beginners, and those without an in-depth understanding of OpenVMS clusters are potentially vulnerable to reading more into the poorly phrased instruction than those of us who understand things in greater depth.

Also, when patch instructions are reviewed by compliance, divergence from recommended procedures may need to be defended in detail. Often, those adjudicating the question are not familiar with the technology, but are managerial. The question is not "Is a reboot needed?" but rather "Why are you not following the manufacturer's recommendation?".

Given that reality, the OpenVMS Engineering team should correct the admittedly long standing bad phrasing to something along the lines of what I suggested. As far as I can remember, a total cluster reboot would only then be needed at a major update.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

Re: Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

John Gillings — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:01:08 GMT

re: patch advice on rebooting...

>Given that reality, the OpenVMS Engineering
>team should correct the admittedly long
>standing bad phrasing to something along
>the lines of what I suggested.

Historically, most patches recommend rebooting after installation. Historically. most people, like Steven, ignore the advice.

Be aware that the phrasing of the message is basically a "butt cover" (to use the American vernacular), written by lawyers and managers, not engineers. As you're aware, such people care very little about poor phrasing, indeed, they may PREFER it over accuracy, as it increases the difficulty in finding a "beyond reasonable doubt" conclusion about the precise meaning.

In the last decade or so, there have been one or two patches released where the instructions stipulate "you must reboot all nodes booted from the modified system disk IMMEDIATELY after installing this patch". If you see words to that effect, I would advise you follow them, as they were written by engineers who have identified real risks.

If you see the usual imprecise boilerplate waffle, you can probably ignore it, except to realise that if you do have problems after installing the patch, the words may be used as a legal shield to protect the guilty from any consequences.

Re: Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

Steven Schweda — Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:11:18 GMT

> Historically, most patches recommend
> rebooting after installation. Historically.
> most people, like Steven, ignore the advice.

No, Steven ignores the advice to reboot all
"other nodes in [his] VMS cluster" when only
one system has had its system disk changed by
a patch installation. Steven is actually
pretty good about doing a reboot of a patched
system when advised to do so.

The question is not whether a patch requires
a reboot of the patched system, it's whether
a patch requires a reboot of other cluster
members whose system disks have been left
unchanged by this patch installation.

Re: Problem installing AXPVMS-VMS83A_MANAGE 4.0

P Muralidhar Kini — Mon, 31 Jan 2011 04:18:46 GMT

Hi Robert,

>> The most likely correct interpretation is likely:
>> ...
Thats a good suggestion.

I have forwarded your suggestion to the concerened team here.

Regards,
Murali