topic Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)] in Operating System - OpenVMS

ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Niall76 — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:47:29 GMT

Hi,

I have bunch of files I ZIP every day, but I always have an issue with this one file. I believe it is a fixed length, sequential file. For some reason the file allocation changes on it with ZIP (FROM 280/280 blocks TO 128/140 blocks), even when the -0 Store only option is used. This causes problem with the program that reads this file.

Does anyone know a way around this? Below is how I use ZIP and UNZIP commands

PROMPT> DIR FILEA.FIL /FULL

Directory GXPROJ:[TSK]

FILEA.FIL;1 File ID: (5607,24,0)
Size: 280/280 Owner: [GOLS,CONSOLE]
Created: 28-MAR-2011 06:39:31.31
Revised: 28-MAR-2011 06:39:31.34 (1)
Expires:
Backup:
Effective:
Recording:
File organization: Indexed, Prolog: 3, Using 1 key
Shelved state: Online
Caching attribute: Writethrough
File attributes: Allocation: 280, Extend: 0, Maximum bucket size: 5, Global buffer count: 0, No version limit
Record format: Variable length, maximum 2044 bytes, longest 0 bytes
Record attributes: None
RMS attributes: None
Journaling enabled: None
File protection: System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:
Access Cntrl List: None
Client attributes: None

Total of 1 file, 280/280 blocks.
PROMPT>
PROMPT> ZIP "-V0" FILEA.ZIP FILEA.FIL
adding filea.fil (stored 0%)
PROMPT>
PROMPT> REN/LO FILEA.FIL *.GOOD
%RENAME-I-RENAMED, GXPROJ:[TSK]FILEA.FIL;1 renamed to GXPROJ:[TSK]FILEA.GOOD;1
PROMPT> UNZIP "-V" FILEA.ZIP FILEA.FIL
Extracting: filea.fil
PROMPT> DIR FILEA.FIL; /FULL

Directory GXPROJ:[TSK]

FILEA.FIL;1 File ID: (5610,24,0)
Size: 128/140 Owner: [GOLS,CONSOLE]
Created: 28-MAR-2011 06:39:31.31
Revised: 28-MAR-2011 06:39:31.34 (1)
Expires:
Backup:
Effective:
Recording:
File organization: Indexed, Prolog: 3, Using 1 key
Shelved state: Online
Caching attribute: Writethrough
File attributes: Allocation: 140, Extend: 0, Maximum bucket size: 5, Global buffer count: 0, No version limit
Record format: Variable length, maximum 2044 bytes, longest 0 bytes
Record attributes: None
RMS attributes: None
Journaling enabled: None
File protection: System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:
Access Cntrl List: None
Client attributes: None

Total of 1 file, 128/140 blocks.

Thanks,
Niall

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Hein van den Heuvel — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:04:57 GMT

Well, the file itself is an indexed file and the main attributes are correctly saved and restored. That's all we can see from here.
You may want to ANALYZE/RMS/FDL the old and new file. Maybe anylyze hints to the root cause or post the results here in a .TXT attachement.

You want and need to upgrade ZIP to a slightly less antiquated version, why use not the most recent version availalable for your platform.

Standard, but always important, questions:

1) Did it ever work
2) What is the exact error message
3) Which Platform/OS version

hth,
Hein

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Niall76 — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:55:54 GMT

Hi Hein,

Thanks for your quick response.

FDL of before and after are attached (windows Zip). There is certainly an issue there in the output of the two files.

Answers to your questions:
1. Did it ever work: probably not. This is a new file added to daily backup. Other files are not of this format type.
2. What is the exact error message: no error message at all. Appears to UNZIPâ s fine and programs runs on this file, just it takes approx 50 times longer to run on the unzipped file!
3. Which Platform/OS version: OpenVMS 7.3

I don't mind installing a newer version of ZIP, is it free and where can you download it?

Many Thanks,
Niall

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Hoff — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:57:18 GMT

Those are even older than the fossil versions of zip and unzip HP tends to use.

Time to upgrade your tools.

Zip and unzip that far back were bug farms.

Newer versions are here:

http://vms.process.com/fileserv-software.html

The versions at this site are classically built against V5.5-ish VMS releases, so they should run most everywhere.

You'll want at least zip V3.0 and unzip V6.0 here.

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Steven Schweda — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:21:03 GMT

> ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

1992? Seriously? Yikes. I didn't get
involved in Info-ZIP development until
September 2004 (complaining about related
problems with "Zip 2.3 (November 29th
1999)"), so 1992 is a little before my time,
but ...

Note that Zip and UnZip don't use the same
version numbering scheme, so, as usual,
actual output from, say:
zip -v
unzip -v
would be more helpful than your vague
description or interpretation of what you
have.

> File attributes: Allocation: 280, [...]

> File attributes: Allocation: 140, [...]

Note that, like many programs, Zip and UnZip
(in recent years, at least) tend to believe
the End-of-File info (efblk, ffbyte), and
ignore the allocated storage beyond the EOF.

Does BACKUP do any better?

Beginning around Zip version 2.32 ("(June
19th 2006)"), Zip has offered a "-VV" option,
which causes it to store every allocated
block (hiblk), which may include data beyond
EOF (efblk, ffbyte). So, if someone's lying
about EOF, you can probably still get what
you want.

Interestingly, most, if not all, of the
EOF-related changes were on the Zip side.
UnZip tended to do what it was told, so it
needed only to be told the right things (by
Zip). But there was a change to the way
VMS-specific file attributes were stored at
some long-ago time, so a very old UnZip might
have some trouble dealing with an archive
created by a (normally-built) modern Zip
program. (Here, "modern" means that "zip -v"
mentions "VMS_PK_EXTRA" in its "Zip special
compilation options" report section. I don't
know when that became the default scheme.
The older scheme was "VMS_IM_EXTRA", which
UnZip should still handle properly, and which
Zip can still be built to use, but it's not
well tested these days, and I wouldn't advise
using it.)

> You want and need to upgrade ZIP to a
> slightly less antiquated version, why use
> not the most recent version availalable for
> your platform.

I'm with him.

> 3) Which Platform/OS version

Again, actual "-v" reports should have shown
the interesting info.

The latest released versions, Zip 3.0 and
UnZip 6.0) have been built on systems so old
as VMS V5.4 (with VAX C V3.1-051), so I can
think of no really good reason to stick with
(known-buggy, reduced-feature) antiques. But
I'm always open to a good counter-argument.

1992. The fun never ends around here.

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Steven Schweda — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:34:36 GMT

> Newer versions are here:
> [...]

They're even available direct from the home
world:

http://www.info-zip.org/
ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/vms/

where there should be enough stuff to get
anyone started.

Also on sourceforge.net. (Also not invisible
to the major Web search engines.)

And, if you have a C compiler (and DCL), then
it should be possible (and practical) to
build everything from a source kit, which is
always fun and educational.

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Hein van den Heuvel — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:45:12 GMT

>>> FDL of before and after are attached (windows Zip). There is certainly an issue there in the output of the two files.

The 'after' file is seriously mangled. No hope.

First choice... upgrade ZIP.

Second choice:
This is a tiny indexed file.
Instead of transferring the indexed file, convert it to sequential:
$ CONVER/FDL=NL:/stat before.idx before.seq
Provide an FDL file :
$ ANAL/RMS/FDL=before
Zip up both sequential file and FDL file
After un-zip re-create the indexed file:
$ CONV/STAT/FAST/FDL=before before.seq after.idx

Third choice:
Stick the Indexed file into backup saveset. Zip that up, unzip and restore.

Hein

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Niall76 — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:15:50 GMT

Hi guys,

I know it is a shameful version of Zip, So I'll go with the upgrade option as you all point towards.

My issue is now, how do i get the new Zip file to unzip on VMS with my old version. I have unzipped in windows, and tried to ftp accross, but the build_zip.com file has lost all of its formatting, god only knows what the other files are like.

I gues the PRODUCT INSTALL option is not available for Zip?

Thanks,
Niall

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Steven Schweda — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:31:53 GMT

> I gues the PRODUCT INSTALL option is not
> available for Zip?

It is, if you produce the kit.

> My issue is now,

Is that anything like a _problem_?

> how do i get the new Zip file to unzip on
> VMS with my old version.

Did you try it? What did you try? What
happened?

ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/vms/
ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/vms/readme

Did your old UnZip program (whose version is
still a secret?) have trouble unpacking a kit
on the VMS system?

> [...]
> actual output from, say:
> zip -v
> unzip -v
> would be more helpful than your vague
> description or interpretation of what you
> have.

I could be talking to a wall and get just as
much useful info back.

> I have unzipped in windows,

Probably not the best idea. Unpacking the
kits on a/the VMS system should cause fewer
problems than trying to do that elsewhere.

> and tried to ftp accross,

That vague description is a few details short
of useful, too.

> but the build_zip.com file has lost all of
> its formatting, god only knows what the
> other files are like.

If you can use _binary_ FTP at all times
(preferably avoiding Windows involvement, but
that may not be crucial), then you should be
able to try your old UnZip program on the new
Zip and UnZip kits. If that causes trouble,
then you could try to use one of those loose
"unzip552*.exe" programs instead of your old
(secret-version) UnZip program.

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Niall76 — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:50:45 GMT

Hi,
Surprise surprise, UNZIP is from the same time as the ZIP exe.

UnZip: Zipfile Extract v5.0 of 21 August 1992; (c) 1989 S.H.Smith and others
Versions 3.0 and later by Info-ZIP. Bug reports ONLY to zip-bugs@cs.ucla.edu

I ftp zip.zip from Windows (no other choice) to my aplha. UNZIP did run, but the com files are all garabge inside.

@LINK
%DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling
\ \
%RMS-W-RTB, 943 byte record too large for user's buffer

I have found a more up to date version of Zip on a VMS 8.3 system (zip 2.32 & unzip 5.52). I have tested Zipping and Unzipping the file with the issue and it works fine on this version. I can't find any install directorys on this machine only the executables. I guess copying these across is not an option.
Thanks,
Niall

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Hein van den Heuvel — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:36:30 GMT

>> I have found a more up to date version of Zip on a VMS 8.3 system (zip 2.32 & unzip 5.52). I have tested Zipping and Unzipping the file with the issue and it works fine on this version.

Good, so no reason to dig deeper from that perspective.

>> I guess copying these across is not an option.

Sure it is. It may well work.
The images ou have found may well have originated on a much older OpenVMS version. I suppose you can study ANALYZE/IMAGE/INTER output, or just try it!

Here is an HP page with links to VMS images, and hints where to look for more (your Freeware CD!)
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/freeware/freeware.html

Hein

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Niall76 — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:56:28 GMT

Hi Hein,

Thank you very much. That version of Zip/Unzip works correctly.

Thank you very much.

Niall

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Hein van den Heuvel — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:23:08 GMT

>> Thank you very much. That version of Zip/Unzip works correctly.

Well, I pulled out all the stops to help you with that.
I constructed a very cunning Google question (not!):

google: +openvms +zip +site:hp.com
[I'm feeling Lucky] Yeah!

:-)

Hein

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Hoff — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:50:34 GMT

Oh Hein, this is ITRC. Please don't expose our secrets.

This is where we run Google. Where we look in Google Groups. And where we search ITRC for previous threads. Or where we search the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ).

But we must never tell the questioners about that, lest they think we're not really some sort of guru; where our wizardry is built on using Google or DuckDuckGo or Blekko searches, and about knowing arcana such as the Google site: keyword to search a host, like site:h71000.www7.hp.com to search the VMS host.

We must have our secrets, and you've just gone and exposed that with your reply.

Whoops. Did I just post this expose of our secret guru tools? Sorry, my bad.

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Steven Schweda — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:29:36 GMT

> Mar 28, 2011 16:31:53 GMT 1 pts

You're most welcome. To assist other, future
victims, could you please explain which part
of the material at:

ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/vms/
ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/vms/readme

failed to provide a complete solution to your
problem?

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Niall76 — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:36:04 GMT

lol, Steven.
I did try one or two of the ZIPs on that link, but the issue was my UNZIP appeared to be too old to successful unpackage the items.
The 1 point was more for your attitude in your response than the response itself.
Anyway, I was probably unduly kind, so you can have 3 more ;)
Niall

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Steven Schweda — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:47:16 GMT

> [...] but the issue [problem?] was my UNZIP
> appeared to be too old to successful
> unpackage the items.

And what about the loose UnZip executables
("unz552xv*.exe") there?

> ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/vms/readme

Did you? The whole idea was to provide
everything necessary to bootstrap the current
released versions of Zip and UnZip, which I
thought that we had done. "Foolproof" is the
word which leaps to mind, but I hesitate to
approach the Forum's personal abuse
prohibition too closely.

> The 1 point was more for your attitude [...]

I find that many Forum points awards
(especially low ones) reveal more about the
question(er) than the answer(er), which is
why I hold the whole points scheme in very
low regard. Along with some Forum users, of
course. So don't fret about my feelings
being hurt this way.

And if you have any other problems with these
programs, even ones which could be solved by
reading the documentation, please don't
hesitate to ask. (Well, perhaps hesitate,
but don't necessarily stop.)

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Stephen Eickhoff_1 — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:37:33 GMT

Wow, 1992. When Lisa "left eye" Lopes and Kurt Cobain were big stars... and alive.

Re: ZIP & UNZIP [1.9 (Aug 26th 1992)]

Niall76 — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:24:49 GMT

Company motto:
if it aint broke dont fix it, if it is broke live with it
:)