topic Re: CharonVAX Standalone and Image backup in Operating System - OpenVMS

CharonVAX Standalone and Image backup

Navipa — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 09:31:18 GMT

Hi All,
We have CharonVAX VMS v6.1. No idea about CharonVAX version.
We have four .vdisk, two .vtape and there are 100GB free space in the same drive where we have installed Charon installed.

Currently there is no backup for OS, Application, & Rdb. I like to create a backups, can some one suggest the type of backup I should have for this environment such as Standalone, image, & data backup. Like to know the syntax/procedure to create/add additional .vdisks for this purpose (Volker gave the details earlier on my another post, but I don't understand) . do we need to take standalone backup using SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT, but no idea about using those arguments(p1, p2,,,p5). Do I need to use Image backup and how? which backup requires ">>>" prompt.

Also we have two .vtape, MUB0 had been used for backup, but that fails. So like to know how to create/configure .vtape to try the backup on that.

Navipa

Re: CharonVAX Standalone and Image backup

Bob Blunt — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 15:32:12 GMT

Frankly it sounds more like your questions need to be sent to Stromasys. But, while you're asking...

First, because we don't support Charon*, the questions you're asking should be viewed in the general VMS sense. If you're trying to make a BACKUP of your system disk then you should, probably, make that by using Standalone BACKUP. On a real VAX you have, basically, two options. You can boot from a disk that has a bootable copy of Standalone, you can boot from some types of alternate media (floppy, some cartridge tapes, sometimes CD). Making an /image BACKUP of your system disk with anything but Standalone is prone to making an incomplete save of your system disk. If you're trying to make an image copy of some data then you *should* be able to use regular online BACKUP PROVIDED THE DATA IS QUIESCENT AND on a disk besides the booted system disk. The files MUST be closed and NOT accessed by any other users or programs or the data you save may probably be incomplete.

As far as how your virtual disks and tapes "work?" Which ones aren't being correctly presented to the operating system? How to set them up? Those are all questions for Stromasys or the vendor from whom you purchased Charon. (Open)VMS, in this scenario, can only work with what it is presented and you're basically trying to EMULATE a VAX (or whatever) and the various peripherals you need to meet your applications requirements. The operating system you're installing should be one of the standard distributions of OpenVMS but, like working with broken peripherals on a REAL VAX, it can't perform magic to make one of those devices work. It is likely that there is something between VMS and whatever REAL devices that provide your "tape" peripherals (since you haven't said if you're actually using a real tape media and a tape peripheral or if you're making a virtual tape "saveset"). In this setup VMS is only able to see and use what the emulator presents to it and IF communication isn't working correctly then VMS can't force it to work.

bob

Re: CharonVAX Standalone and Image backup

Volker Halle — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 16:50:26 GMT

Navipa,

the easiest way to do a Backup in this configuration (without any knowledge of OpenVMS and CHARON-VAX) is:

- shut down the OpenVMS system

- copy the 4 CHARON-VAX .vdisk files

- boot OpenVMS system

This provides a 100% consistent backup of all of your OpenVMS system, applications and data.

An OpenVMS standalone backup would consume less Windows disk space, but requires more OpenVMS knowledge.

Volker.

Re: CharonVAX Standalone and Image backup

H.Becker — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 20:41:34 GMT

... and you can zip them all together into a single archive (or when running the VAX on Linux use any of the compressed file systems like SquashFS). And if the .vdisk files where created with a repeating byte pattern for the unused free space this will very likely be more disk space effective than an OpenVMS backup save set created by the standalone backup.

Re: CharonVAX Standalone and Image backup

Brad McCusker — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 14:21:44 GMT

I agree 100% with Volker's reply.

I will like to add where Volker said "copy the 4 CHARON-VAX .vdisk " - This could also mean "backup the 4 CHARON-VAX .vdisk files using the same tools you use to backup other important Windows files". Afterall, the .vdisk files are just Windows files.

The important point is that VMS is shutdown so that the VMS files and data are in a consistent state.

Brad McCusker

Software Concepts International

www.sciinc.com

Re: CharonVAX Standalone and Image backup

Stanley F Quayle — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 16:04:23 GMT

It is also possible to back up the system while it's running. CHARON-VAX can be configured to create a virtual tape drive.

The virtual drive creates a Windows file with the name you configure. Once you deallocate & dismount the "tape" you can back it up with Windows tools -- the file isn't locked even with VMS running.

If you have a tape backup script already, configuring the virtual tape drive requires no change in VMS. And it's a one-line change to your CHARON configuration file.

If you don't have a backup strategy already, you're in trouble, physical or virtual VAX.

I have a document about backups at http://www.stanq.com/Virtual%20Backup%20Options.pdf I've also attached it to thi s post.

Re: CharonVAX Standalone and Image backup

Hoff — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 16:37:55 GMT

@stanley F Quayle wrote:
It is also possible to back up the system while it's running. CHARON-VAX can be configured to create a virtual tape drive.

FWIW for the OP and for other folks including the CHARON-VAX documentation folks: the OpenVMS VAX CDs (and any proper emulated-disk images created of same) have been directly bootable into OpenVMS VAX for some years now.

Much easier than dinking around with Standalone BACKUP and tape (or emulated-tape) bootstraps, after all.

IIRC, OpenVMS VAX V6.0 and later can boot from SYS1 on a CD distribution kit (>>> B/R5:10000000 ddcu, or whatever the particular VAX or VAX emulator uses), and the user can then access full OpenVMS VAX.

The full OpenVMS VAX environment obviously being vastly more flexible than Standalone BACKUP — you're not limited to the BACKUP command, after all.

Even the retronauts still running with OpenVMS VAX V5.5-2H4, V5.5-2 and earlier can boot and use a V6.0 and later OpenVMS VAX CD distribution kit for tasks such as disk analysis and disk volume structure repairs, and for tasks such as locating and restoring a specific file from a backup saveset or such. Things that Standalone BACKUP just isn't capable of.

Re: CharonVAX Standalone and Image backup

Navipa — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 11:24:49 GMT

Hi Bob, Volker, H.Becker, Brad, Stanley, Holf,

Thanks for all you valuable responses. I have prepared the procedure with all your tips (Almost everyone of you have provided the simkilar suggestions ) and going to request our lab team to implement it. Once it is implemented, I will let you and approve your solutions.

Thanks

Navipa