topic Re: Problems with restore from tape in Operating System - OpenVMS

Problems with restore from tape

Kirsten Knüttel — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:13:00 GMT

Hello,

I've got a problem with a restore and I really don't find the solution. Perhaps, somebody of you has got a hint....

I've got OpenVMS 7.3-1 on an Alpha Server

For tests, I've made of all disks a backup on tape (TZ88) with the following command:

backup/image $1$dua240: $42$mka300:dua240.bck /label=240bck

Now I want to restore the disk on an empty volume (with a TZ89), but the command

backup/image $41$mka400:dua240.bck $1$dga240:

doesn't work. The error message is always file not found. When I mount the tape /over=id I can see the file and when I mount the tape /foreign I can do a backup/list on the file. Everything is no problem.
The onliest restore command, that worked was:
backup/image $41$mka400: $1$dga240:
Even with *.* it doesn't work.

With the restore of the files, it was "no problem" because I had only one file on a tape. Now I have to restore the databases (with 2 or more RBF-files on a tape) and the same error occurs.

I hope, somebody has got an idea, where I can search for the error.

Regards,

Kirsten

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Robert Gezelter — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:16:22 GMT

Kirsten,

I do not have a tape drive handy to reproduce precisely what you are doing, but I note that the command line in the posting did not include the /SAVE_SET or /REWIND qualifiers for the tape.

As far as I know, you can only restore one saveset at a time.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Jon Pinkley — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:41:14 GMT

Kirsten,

Your backup to tape didn't include /rewind, so it is possible that you have multiple savesets on the tape with the same name, specifically dua240.bck, since the "default" action of backup (post v.5.5?) has been /norewind, and this appends a saveset to the end of the tape.

I would suggest creating a complete backup listing of the tape.

$ mou/for $41$mka400:
$ backup/list=240bck.lis $41$mka400:*.*
$ search/nowindow 240bck.lis "save set:"

If you have multiple savesets on the tape that have the same name, you will need to either position the tape to the correct location using set mag/skip=fil=xxx (note that xxx is not the save set number, but you can derive the correct number of filemarks to skip given the save set number. See replay dated Jul 14, 2007 02:21:58 GMT in thread http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1144759

Alternatively, you can list all preceding savesets with backup to position the tape, then issue your backup command to restore.

It isn't clear to me whether the tape you have was created with backup or with the RDB backup utility. It have been over 12 years since I used RDB, but if I remember correctly, it was possible to write RBF files directly to tape, and these have to be restored with the RDB backup utility.

Doing a backup listing of the tape will tell you whether what you have on tape is a VMS backup saveset or not. If it isn't a VMS backup saveset, then VMS BACKUP won't help in the restore.

If on the other hand, the RBF files were written to a disk, and then those files backed up to tape using VMS backup, you are on the correct track, but you may be selecting the incorrect saveset on the tape.

Good luck,

Jon

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Jan van den Ende — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:01:30 GMT

Re Robert,

Kirsten, essentially Robert is correct, but (lucky to you!) those qualifiers ARE the default.
So, unless you did define symbol BACKUP that changes those settings, you ARE OK in that respect.

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Jon Pinkley — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:16:39 GMT

See

$ help backup/rewind
BACKUP

/REWIND

/REWIND
/NOREWIND (default)

This has been the default for about the last 15 years. Originally it was /REWIND, but that was a dangerous enough default that it was changed even though it had the possibility of breaking existing command procedures. I am not sure when it changed, but it was definitely before V6.0, I think it was in the 4.4 or 5.5 release.

Note that when restoring, if you mount a tape, and don't do anything to cause the position to be changed, either /rewind or /norewind will read the first saveset on the tape.

The help has more details, which you can read directly.

Jon

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Kirsten Knüttel — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:17:48 GMT

@Robert:

I've tried it with a /REWIND before and within the command. The /SAVE_SET command is not used with a tape and with the /IMAGE.
My problem is, what can I do when I've got more than one saveset on the tape. At the moment it was easy, because I only had one file on the tape. When I had to specify a saveset I couldn't do the restore

@ Jon:

I have the problems with the normal backup operation and with the RMU/RESTORE. My description was for an image backup of a normal disk with normal files.
The second phase is now for me, to restore databases from the tape to the disk (with the RMU command) and here I had the same error.

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Jon Pinkley — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:44:14 GMT

RE: "My problem is, what can I do when I've got more than one saveset on the tape. At the moment it was easy, because I only had one file on the tape. When I had to specify a saveset I couldn't do the restore"

The short answer is: Make sure you use unique saveset names, and remember there is a 17-character limit (including the dot) for file names on ANSI tapes.

So I would suggest something like DUA240.F071105 as a saveset name for a full image backup created on Nov 5, 2007.

The previous thread I referenced also reported that save sets couldn't be found.

I have not had problems specifying backup savesets with any version of VMS backup in 6.2, 7.1-2, 7.2-2 or 7.3-2. I always explicitly mount/foreign the tapes, i.e. I don't allow backup to do it implicitly.

I can't be of any help with RMU backup, since I don't have it available.

Good luck,

Jon

Re: Problems with restore from tape

EdgarZamora_1 — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:48:10 GMT

Jon gave you the answer previously. If you have multiple savesets on the tape use the SET MAGT/SKIP=FILES:n to position the tape to the saveset you want to restore.

For example, if I wanted to restore the 3rd saveset on the tape:

$ set magt/rew $41$mka400:
$ set magt/skip=file:2
$ backup/image $41$mka400: $1$dga240:

highly unlikely, but if you don't know what savesets are on the tape, use backup/list= as Jon mentioned above to get a listing of the savesets.

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Jon Pinkley — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:05:19 GMT

@Edgar

My experience with set magtape/skip=files=n is that n is not the saveset number.

If the tape has the following savesets:

1.BCK
2.BCK ! set magtape/skip=file=2 (but this may not use fast skip)
3.BCK ! set magtape/skip=file=5
4.BCK ! set magtape/skip=file=8
5.BCK ! set magtape/skip=file=11

i.e. if ssn is save set number (starting with 1) then files to skip, n = ssn*3-4

See http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1144759 reply dated Jul 14, 2007 02:21:58 GMT

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Jon Pinkley — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:11:08 GMT

More examples of using $ set magtape/skip=file in following thread: http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1143795 reply dated Jul 21, 2007 05:26:07 GMT. It has a log of usage showing how to position a DLT tape.

Jon

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Guenther Froehlin — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:34:28 GMT

BACKUP/LIST uses about the same code paths as a BACKUP restore to open and read a save set file.

BACKUP leaves a tape postioned when it has completed a task.

I can only imagine that a save was done following right away by a restore operation without a /REWIND specified for the restore. Since BACKUP only skips forward to search for a file it could not find the save set.

/Guenther

Re: Problems with restore from tape

EdgarZamora_1 — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:19:23 GMT

You learn something new everyday. Thanks Jon. I could've sworn I did this in the distant past. Maybe I never skipped more than 1 "file".

Nevertheless, Kirsten the SET MAGT/SKIP=FILE:n would be the command to use to position to the right saveset. Use Jon's formula.

Re: Problems with restore from tape

David Jones_21 — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:23:58 GMT

I seem to recall some issues with case sensitivity to backup saveset names on tape when we first deployed EFS on 7.3. Try changing process parse style to traditional if it is currently extended.

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Guenther Froehlin — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 19:26:17 GMT

David,

there was a BACKUP fix for case sensitivity earlier this year. I wonder why the BACKUP/LIST then worked.

/Guenther

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Jon Pinkley — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 21:20:38 GMT

We aren't using EFS, (still using ODS2 for all production data), so that is something I have never tested. So if you are using EFS, David's suggestion may solve the problem of not finding the saveset on tape, at least until the patch is applied (assuming the patch was back ported to 7.3-1).

It wasn't clear if a saveset name was specified on the backup/list command. If it was, then I can't explain why the list would have worked.

Kirsten, what version of VMS Backup are you using?

$ analyze/image/select=(ident,link) sys$system:backup.exe;

And what does

$ show process/parse_style

display as parse style: ?

I don't see any way to retrieve the state of parse style using the f$environment lexical function, at least in 7.3-2. Has that been added to newer versions? If seems that could be a useful item to have a command procedure be able to save before changing the parse style.

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Kirsten Knüttel — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 02:52:54 GMT

@ Jon:

The backup /list command I use with the save-set name. So I don't understand why the restore command can't find the save-set when I give him the name, too. And, yes, I've done a rewind every time before I use a backup-command.
In the documentation I've found the following things:

To restore the save set, enter the BACKUP command with the /IMAGE qualifier, using the following syntax:
BACKUP/IMAGE device:save-set-specifier [/SAVE_SET] output-device

BACKUP/IMAGE save-set-specifier ddcu:
$ BACKUP/IMAGE MTA0:17AUG.BCK DRA3:

The examples don't work. The command, that worked was:

$BACKUP/IMAGE MTA0: DRA3:

Here the results for your answer:

BDE04> analyze/image/select=(ident,link) sys$system:backup.exe;
SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]BACKUP.EXE;1
"AXP731R006"
16-SEP-2004 15:26:36.32

BDE04> show process/parse_style

6-NOV-2007 08:32:53.02 User: LIEBIG Process ID: 20665077
Node: BDE04 Process name: "LIEBIG"

Soft CPU Affinity: off

Parse Style: Traditional

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Jon Pinkley — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 04:12:27 GMT

Kirsten,

It appears you have the latest patch to backup for VMS 7.3-1

ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V7.3-1/VMS731_BACKUP-V0300.txt

Can you please supply an example of the commands (including any explicit mount commands if they were used) you used to create multiple savesets on the tape, and the commands you used to attempt the restore, with the error message that backup generated?

For example, I would have used something like the following:

$ init mkd600: demo/media=compaction
$ mount/for mkd600:/nounload
%MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, DEMO mounted on _SIGMA$MKD600:
$ backup/rewind/image/block=32256 disk1: mkd600:disk1.f071105 /group=0/media=compaction/label=demo/exact_order
$ backup/norewind/image/block=32256 disk2: mkd600:disk2.f071105 /group=0/media=compaction/ label=demo /exact_order
$ backup/norewind/image/block=32256 disk3: mkd600:disk3.f071105 /group=0/media=compaction/ label=demo /exact_order
$ dism/nounl mkd600:
$ mount/for mkd600:/nounload
MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, DEMO mounted on _SIGMA$MKD600:
$ mount/for disknew:
$ backup/image mkd600:disk3.f071105 disknew:

And I would expect it to find the third saveset, and make a logical duplicate of disk3: to disknew:

Or to save some time if fast skip was enabled on mkd600: I could insert the following after the last mount:

$ set magtape/skip=file:5 mkd600:

which would position to right before the 3rd saveset, and the backup command would find the next saveset to be the one it was looking for.

Jon

Re: Problems with restore from tape

EdgarZamora_1 — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 10:13:23 GMT

Actually what would be very helpful here is if Kirsten can attach the backup listing of the tape in question. (Just the initial parts would be good, you can cut off the file listings).

Are you using the same system/account (to try and restore the tape) as the one used for creating the tape? What I'm getting at here is that you showed the SHOW PROC/PARSE for the account you are using to try and restore, but the account used to create the tape may have had the extended parsing turned on. The backup listing will show this. Please supply us with that.

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Kirsten Knüttel — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 10:28:25 GMT

Hi,

I've used the same account for backup and restore. And it is difficult for me to cut the backup/list output, because, the machine, where I restore the data (system disk included) has no access to anything else at the moment.

Another point I've found out in the last hours is, that the RMU-restore worked fine and found the RBF-files on tape.

So I've found a workaround for the restore of the files, the restore of the DB worked fine now.

I would say, if nobody has an idea why there are problems to find the backup file on tape I would close the thread. But not without saying a big thank you to all who have thought about this problem.

Regards,

Kirsten

Re: Problems with restore from tape

Guenther Froehlin — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 11:28:40 GMT

Kirsten,

you can't let us hang with this...please! You are doing something we all know works.

One question:

"backup/image $1$dua240: $42$mka300:...
...
backup/image $41$mka400:dua240.bck ..."

It seems you were using two tape drives. Are you sure you used specified the correct drive all the time?

/Guenther