topic Re: Applications that require ODS5 in Operating System - OpenVMS

Applications that require ODS5

Dave Gudewicz — Thu, 27 May 2004 13:32:44 GMT

My guess is that over time, ODS5 will probably become more of a requirement than it is today.

That said, might there be a listing of today's applications that do require ODS5 floating around somewhere?

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Martin P.J. Zinser — Thu, 27 May 2004 13:48:34 GMT

Hello Dave,

I am not aware of such a list. Examples that come to mind immediatly are Oracle (classic) and GNV. Others certainly will be able to supply more.

Greetings, Martin

P.S. You might want to check out how to assign points to the replies ;-)

Re: Applications that require ODS5

John Eerenberg — Thu, 27 May 2004 14:26:11 GMT

Apache requires ODS-5 on the Apache disk (though other disks can still use ODS-2).

Pack cluster sizes are more efficient on ODS-5 but that is available on ODS-2 disks too with restrictions. Read $ help init /cluster very carefully.

ODS-5 is not available on systems prior to VMS V7.2.

I think ODS-2 is easier to manage. Given the reasonableness of $init/cluster functionality on ODS-2, I will stay with ODS-2 for quite some time and use ODS-5 as needed. Of cource I'll probably change my mind next week when I see all the responses in this thread. :-)

john

Re: Applications that require ODS5

labadie_1 — Thu, 27 May 2004 14:38:38 GMT

Java, Python, Mysql...

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Dave Gudewicz — Thu, 27 May 2004 14:44:24 GMT

I see we are creating a list. ;-)

Thanks.

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Uwe Zessin — Fri, 28 May 2004 00:16:49 GMT

I think the major driving force for ODS-5 was/is Advanced Server V7.

It is great that you have agreed to compile a list ;-)

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Jan van den Ende — Fri, 28 May 2004 02:24:16 GMT

John

Apache requires ODS-5 on the Apache disk

Isn't it so that Apache >>> 2.0 <<< requires ODS-5, but Apache 1.x is quite happy with ODS-2?

And there are other reasons as well to NOT upgrade Apache 1.3 to 2.0 (the Stream_LF issue for example)
Jan

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Dieter Rossbach — Fri, 28 May 2004 04:08:17 GMT

Apache 1.3.x is fine with ODS-2.

Regards

Dieter

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Dima Bessonov — Fri, 28 May 2004 04:19:05 GMT

It's not that simple with Oracle. Before Database Server 9 (i.e. for Oracle versions up to 8.1.7.x), ODS5 was NOT supported at all. From version 9 on, ODS5 is REQUIRED for the disk were Oracle puts its executables but is optional for database disks. The funny result of that is, if one upgrades Oracle from 8.1.7 to, say, 9.2 he MUST use both an ODS5 disk for the new Oracle "system" disk and an ODS2 disk for the existing one. You can't do the upgrade in place.

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Brad McCusker — Fri, 28 May 2004 06:22:51 GMT

>I think the major driving force for
>ODS-5 was/is Advanced Server V7.

No, not really. The driver was "NT affinity", remember that? Advanced Server V7 was part of on of the "Affinity Waves". Advanced Server V7* is very happy to serve ODS-2 disks as well as ODS-5.

Generally speaking, UNIX originated programs are more likely to need ODS-5. Certainly the underlying C-RTL is only adding UNIX file name support when on ODS-5 disks. New features tend to be ODS-5 specific as well.

Brad

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Uwe Zessin — Fri, 28 May 2004 07:12:51 GMT

Oh! NO! Brad, you have ruined my day ;-)
Please, never again mention 'affinity'...

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Brad McCusker — Sat, 29 May 2004 08:24:41 GMT

>Oh! NO! Brad, you have ruined my day ;-)
>Please, never again mention 'affinity'...

When we were talking about the work that became the UNIX Portability effort, we were trying to decide what to call it. Some one suggested "UNIX Affinity". If I recall correctly, I went screaming from the room... ;^)

Brad (who as one of the Project Leaders for Advanced Server was firmly entrenched in the "NT A-word" waves)

Re: Applications that require ODS5

John Eerenberg — Sat, 29 May 2004 10:31:55 GMT

Jan,
> "And there are other reasons as well to NOT upgrade Apache 1.3 to 2.0 (the Stream_LF issue for example)"
We are quite happy with v2 and developing new apps (imagine that!).
Could you elaborate on the stream_lf issue?

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Uwe Zessin — Sat, 29 May 2004 12:01:09 GMT

Well done, Brad!!

I recall that the Tru64 people at that time had a similar program to hand their users over to NT as well, but I don't remember its name.

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Martin P.J. Zinser — Mon, 31 May 2004 12:19:32 GMT

Hi,

well, now there is a list at ;-)

http://zinser.no-ip.info/eng/vms/qaa/ods5app.htmlx

A few notes:

- I added Netbeans
- Java and MySQL are not on the list since to the best of my knowledge they do not require ODS-5. If you have sources showing otherwise please get in touch with me.

Greetings, Martin

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Craig A Berry — Mon, 31 May 2004 14:42:15 GMT

Martin,

I think the Java run-time works on ODS-2 but the SDK requires ODS-5.

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Martin P.J. Zinser — Mon, 31 May 2004 15:23:57 GMT

Hello Craig,

I looked at the installation instructions for the SDK and I did not see it mention ODS-5 as a requirement. Any specific quotes?

Greetings, Martin

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Jan van den Ende — Tue, 01 Jun 2004 00:49:51 GMT

John,

The quickest demo of the STREAM_LF issue in Apache 2.0 is perhaps also the easiest to do:
Display any existing HTML page, then EDIT it minimally (replace a space by a space eg), and do a Refresh on your browser.
I'm not sure if there are any browser dependencies, but over here 'everybody' has to use Billy's Exploder, and the results are terrific (as in totally useless): most of the display consists of small squares.
Really the only way to get things displayed as they used to be with Apache 1.3 is to have ALL files CONVERTed to STREAM_LF. Any program that delivers webpages has to be modified to have ALL generated or modified pages CONVERTed.
_WE_ definitely won't be upgrading to Apache 2.x before this is settled!

Jan

Re: Applications that require ODS5

Willem Grooters — Mon, 16 Sep 2024 09:21:11 GMT

It's a bit besides the topic - but this is just THE BIG POINT that a lot of people seem to forget.
Usage of OpenSource (read - UNIX-based) software seems to be designed and written without ANY idea of how other OS's may react. A lot of these programs can be VERY useful - when they only could co-operate with native (read non-Unix) programs. As long as the requirement of STREAM_LF format is not lifted, they cannot easily be used.

Same applies to ODS-5 and ODS-2. I wouldn't mind if the program itself required ODS-5 (Martin: JAVA 1.4.x does!), but I would mind the datafiles to require ODS-5 because of multiple dots, spaces and all kind of characters in the filename, or even very long filenames. No-one has ever convinced me of the usability of a filename + extension over 2 * 39 characters, let alone over 255 for the whole; nor have I been convinced about case-sensitivity in filenames (The only advantage is readability, sometimes).

There's a LOT of education to be done. Not only in just getting things running on VMS, the's easy enough. Point is to educate co-operation!

Willem