topic Re: rename path issue [ newbie question] in Operating System - OpenVMS

rename path issue [ newbie question]

nipun_2 — Mon, 08 Aug 2005 21:22:32 GMT

Hi,
I am trying to move directory and it's subdirectories and all their contents from

disk1:[acct1.data]dirTOMOVE to
disk1:[ACCT2.data]dirTOMOVE

so I did
$rename disk1:[acct1.data.dirTOMOVE...]*.*;* disk1:[ACCT2.data]*.*;*

However, this copies the subdirectories directly to the data folder

so I have disk1:[ACCT2.data.subdir] instead of disk1:[ACCT2.data.dirTOMOVE.subdir]

Please let me know what you think

Thanks in advance

Nipun

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

John Gillings — Mon, 08 Aug 2005 22:11:45 GMT

Nipun,

You've got the answer in your description... Try:

$ RENAME/LOG -
DISK1:[ACCT1.DATA]DIRTOMOVE.DIR -
DISK1:[ACCT2.DATA]DIRTOMOVE.DIR

This will move the directory file (and all its contents). Good policy to use /LOG, especially if you're unsure what's going to happen.
Note that if ACCT1 and ACCT2 are owned by different users, you may want to reset the file ownerships as well:

$ SET DIRECTORY/OWNER=acct2 DISK1:[ACCT2.DATA.DIRTOMOVE]
$ SET FILE/OWNER=acct2 DISK1:[ACCT2.DATA.DIRTOMOVE...]*.*;*

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Antoniov. — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 03:01:55 GMT

Just for talking,
directory in vms are file with .DIR extension.
Rename can work just on the same disk.

Antonio Vigliotti

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Robert Gezelter — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 03:09:44 GMT

Nipun,

WADR (with all due respect), I believe that John omitted an important case in his answer.

John discussed the very common case of renaming a directory from one name to another. His answer is completely correct, as is his well noted comment about file ownership. To his comment, I will add a comment about the File Protection Masks and Access Control Lists (ACLS), which also may require adjustment, depending on your security issues.

John's answer, did however, omit the possibility that the RENAME operation was a merge of the files contained in disk1:[acct1.data...] with the contents of the directory tree disk1:[ACCT2.data...].

In that case, your RENAME command should be:
$ RENAME/LOG disk1:[acct1.data...]*.*;* disk1:[ACCT2.data...]*.*;*

Two things to note about the above:
- first, the ellipsis (...) on both source and the destination are critical
- the /LOG output will not include files (or for that matter, directories) that are included in sub-directories that are moved in total when the sub-directory is renamed.

Note that the use of RENAME only works for the same device, if the devices are different, BACKUP is the preferred utility.

I hope that the above is helpful.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Peter Quodling — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 04:11:29 GMT

Use Backup - its much smarter at doing this sort of stuff...

Q

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Robert Gezelter — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 05:03:07 GMT

Peter,

Yes, BACKUP is a good option. However, Nipun did not specify the size (or for that matter, the allocations) of the files in the original directory tree.

If the files are large, of they are specially allocated (e.g., contiguous, placement control), or if there is not enough space for two copies of the files on the disk, RENAME is Nipun's best option.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Antoniov. — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 08:29:43 GMT

Backup is good solution when you have to move from a disk to another one.

Antonio Vigliotti

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

nipun_2 — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 09:54:48 GMT

Thanks for the reply.
yeah I the files are huge and on the same disk so renaming is the only option I have and I have to be careful.

when I do
$ RENAME/LOG -
DISK1:[ACCT1.DATA]DIRTOMOVE.DIR -
DISK1:[ACCT2.DATA]DIRTOMOVE.DIR

Does this mean I need to have DIRTOMOVE.DIR already created in ACCT2 before hand?

in order to effectively copy all the subdirectories in the right order.

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Antoniov. — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 10:08:47 GMT

Absolutely no,
ACCT2 can't exist, so can't exit its subdirectory.

Antonio Vigliotti

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Hein van den Heuvel — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 10:14:03 GMT

>>> when I do $ RENAME/LOG -
DISK1:[ACCT1.DATA]DIRTOMOVE.DIR -
DISK1:[ACCT2.DATA]DIRTOMOVE.DIR
>Does this mean I need to have DIRTOMOVE.DIR >already created in ACCT2 before hand?

Yes.

You will also need to unprotect the directories before delete or rename as by default they are protected against delete.
Now you are not deleting, only writing, but changing directory entries can 'appear' to look like deleting (both cases can result in 'file not found' :-).
What I tend to do is a simple, sleazy: SET PROT xxx.DIR.
This will apply the default file protection which will allow delete.
You should reset afterwards, but you can not delete non-empty directories anyway.

Hein.

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

nipun_2 — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 10:53:17 GMT

I have a little confusion here what is the different between

$rename disk1:[acct1.data.dirTOMOVE...]*.*;* disk1:[ACCT2.data.dirTOMOV...]*.*;*

and

$rename disk1:[acct1.data.dirTOMOVE...]*.*;* disk1:[ACCT2.data.dirTOMOV]*.*;*

Note: I need to move the directory and all it's subdirectories and their contents. The data is very critical so need to understand clearly what I am doing.

Thanks again

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Antoniov. — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 10:54:55 GMT

Does this mean I need to have DIRTOMOVE.DIR already created in ACCT2 before hand?

No or Yes?
Because Hein and me have different point of view I try to explain better.
[No]
If ACCT2 doesn't exist, ACCT1 is renamed as is keeping source owner (of ACCT1).
[Yes]
If ACCT2 exists (and/or its subdirectory) command can't rename directory (because it alredy exists), send you an error message and keeps taregt owner (of ACCT2).

Antonio Vigliotti

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

nipun_2 — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 11:03:27 GMT

I would like to append one other point

if I do the following

$rename disk1:[acct1.data]dirTOMOVE.dir - disk1:[ACCT2.data]

won't this entirely solve my problem?
Basically, it will copy all the contents and sub directories of dirTOMOVE.dir to disk1:[ACCT2.data]

I already have disk1:[ACCT2.data ] setup.

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Jan van den Ende — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 11:19:39 GMT

Nipun,

when I do
$ RENAME/LOG -
DISK1:[ACCT1.DATA]DIRTOMOVE.DIR -
DISK1:[ACCT2.DATA]DIRTOMOVE.DIR

Does this mean I need to have DIRTOMOVE.DIR already created in ACCT2 before hand?

To this, Hein answered "Yes"

I am sorry, but have to ABSOLUTELY disagree!!

The (special) file DIRTOMOVE.DIR always has version ;1.
It has to, if it is be able to functon as a DIRECTORY.
Now, if it already exists in [acct2.data], the RENAME will already find a ;1 , and generate ;2
Now there are TWO versions of the .DIR file, and you are in for some nasty surprises!
Those may be summarised by: YOU DO NOT WANT THIS!!!

So, the answer to the quoted question HAS to be NO, it does NOT have to exist, at should NOT exist!!

And Antonio's "RENAME will give an error" also is INCORRECT! It just creates ;2

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Antoniov. — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 11:23:53 GMT

Nipun,
sorry, sorry sorry.
I wrong :-(
Don't read my previous posts.

$rename disk1:[acct1.data]dirTOMOVE.dir - disk1:[ACCT2.data]

1.Directory [ACCT2.data] has to exist;
2.After rename all files and subdirectory are moved in new folder
3.Directory [ACCT1.DATA] stay empty
4.Directory [ACCT2.DATA] contains all files and directory.

Antonio Vigliotti

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Robert Gezelter — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 11:27:14 GMT

Nipun,

I believe that Hein mis-spoke (wrote).

Obviously, before doing any of these operations with real files, create a sample directory tree with a population of files and experiment until you are comfortable that you understand what is happening.

It takes only a few seconds to create a group of nested subdirectories a few levels deep, each with some non-directory files. Do the RENAME/LOG operation on this tree and you will see how the mechanics of RENAME operate without working with live data.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Antoniov. — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 11:27:24 GMT

Just for talking,
I never use full path, I usually use path from current directory.
So I didn't read ACCT1/2 is just a level above the current you want to rename.

Antonio Vigliotti

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Dale A. Marcy — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:09:45 GMT

Maybe I am reading this thread incorrectly, but it sounds to me like all Nipun really wants to do is:

$ rename/log disk1:[000000]acct1.dir disk1:[000000]acct2.dir

I prefer to add /log to all my copy/rename/delete commands.

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Hein van den Heuvel — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:55:28 GMT

Jan> To this, Hein answered "Yes". I am sorry, but have to ABSOLUTELY disagree!!
Rob> I believe that Hein mis-spoke (wrote).

You guys are right. I mis-read.
I _thought_ he had pre-created an empty directory, which would have to be removed.
My bad.

Dale> all Nipun really wants to do is:
> $ rename/log disk1:[000000]acct1.dir disk1:[000000]acct2.dir

Yes, but he is 'nervous' about it.

Nipun> rename disk1:[acct1.data]dirTOMOVE.dir - disk1:[ACCT2.data]
Nipun> won't this entirely solve my problem?

YES

> Basically, it will copy all the contents and sub directories of dirTOMOVE.dir to disk1:[ACCT2.data]

NO. But this is semantics / nit picking.
It will NOT copy contents or subdirectories.
It will only rename that top directoy.
But that contents and those subdirectories will become visible, will get a path, under that new top just like you desire.
So the desired effect will be there with a single, reversible, sub-second command.

Sorry 'bout mis-reading earlier.
Hein.

Re: rename path issue [ newbie question]

Vladimir K. Vershinin — Tue, 09 Aug 2005 13:38:22 GMT

You can use VTfm from
http://www.vtfm.narod.ru