topic Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting. in Operating System - OpenVMS

Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Rob Kersey — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:27:43 GMT

We currently have DECnet Plus (DEC AXPVMS DECNET_OSI V7.3-2) installed.

We would like to disable this from starting as it is another layered product we do not wish to use as we have IP.

I have looked in SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM but can only see the option to disable DECnet from starting, not DECnet Plus.

Would SYS$NODE logical be defined as it is not currently!

A closer investigation into sys$manager:startup.com I found:

$p1 = f$extract(stdrv$i+1,f$locate(",",f$extract(stdrv$i+1,999,stdrv$requests)),stdrv$requests)
$if P1.EQS."NETWORK"
$then
$if f$search("SYS$STARTUP:NET$STARTUP.COM").NES."" then -
$ @SYS$STARTUP:NET$STARTUP "''p1'" "''p2'" "''p3'" "''p4'" "''p5'" "''p6'" "''p7'" "''p8'"
$exit

So we have renamed NET$STARTUP.COM to NET$STARTUP1.COM.

This seem to have stopped DECnet Plus from starting up, althought a SHOW NET still shows DECnet. I feel it is not the correct way to do it.

A closer look in the DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS
Network Management manual says that we could define NET$IGNORE_DECNET TRUE in SYS$MANAGER:NET$LOGICALS.COM

Would this be the better/cleaner/official way of disabling DECnet plus to get a cleaner bowl?

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Ian Miller. — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:56:27 GMT

I think NET$IGNORE_DECNET is the way to go.
See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6499/6499pro_008.html#index_x_276

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Antoniov. — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:57:03 GMT

Hi Rob,
here there is the documentation page for your interest http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6499/6499pro_008.html#log_names_start
It seem you have:
$ DEFINE/SYSTEM NET$IGNORE_DECNET TRUE
before command NET$STARTUP in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.

Bye
Antoniov

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Rob Kersey — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:56:38 GMT

DEFINE/SYSTEM NET$IGNORE_DECNET TRUE in SYS$MANAGER:NET$LOGICALS.COM

Seems to have had exactly the same effect as renaming net$startup.com to net$startup1.com (As expected I suppose).

Although DECnet still shows up on a $SHOW NET.

Cheers!

Rob.

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

John Gillings — Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:32:27 GMT

Rob,

The SHOW NET command reflects what's been defined with the SET NETWORK command. It's a kind of data base stored in logical names which are used by START/NETWORK, STOP/NETWORK, SHOW NETWORK etc...

(See HELP SET NETWORK and SHOW LOGICAL SYS$NET_SERVICE*. This is an "open" mechanism which you're free to find a use for ;-)

The command procedure SYS$STARTUP:SYS$NET_SERVICES.COM just looks for files called SYS$STARTUP:SYS$NET_SERVICES_*.COM and executes any that are found. You have a procedure "_DECNET.COM" which defines the DECnet network. Since it doesn't have any code to check NET$IGNORE_DECNET, it will be executed. This is a shortcoming, which I'll feed back to the DECnet folk.

In the mean time, you can use SET NETWORK/REMOVE to delete the DECnet entry from the data base.

Cleaner, but unsupported, you could RENAME the file, or add the line:

$ IF F$TRNLNM("NET$IGNORE_DECNET").NES."" THEN EXIT

at the top of the procedure.

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Lokesh_2 — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 03:59:47 GMT

Hi ,

In this case I will simply put $EXIT on the first line of both NET$STARTUP.COM & SYS$NET_SERVICES_DECNET.COM.

Best regards,
Lokesh

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Ian Miller. — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 04:14:23 GMT

remember that DECnet/Plus is started earlier than SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM
I would define the logical and add the suggested line in the net services command file to check it.

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Wim Van den Wyngaert — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 05:51:33 GMT

SYS$NODE is only defined when decnet is up. In fact, the shutdown is only done when it exists. To have NO shutdown, define shutdown$decnet_minutes as -1 (t.i. never).

Note that lots of programs use sys$node so it might be best to define it by hand.

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Rob Kersey — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 07:06:44 GMT

I tried adding

$ IF F$TRNLNM("NET$IGNORE_DECNET") .NES. "" THEN EXIT

To SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]SYS$NET_SERVICES_DECNET.COM

However we do a

DEFINE/SYSTEM IGNORE_DECNET TRUE

in sys$manager:net$logicals.com

Which I assume gets called after

SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]SYS$NET_SERVICES_DECNET.COM

is run.

By putting $EXIT at the top of

SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]SYS$NET_SERVICES_DECNET.COM

We do not get any DECnet details on SHOW NETWORK.

Cheers!

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Wim Van den Wyngaert — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 07:22:04 GMT

I just tested the boot without decnet. DECW normally shows sys$node_fullname (LOCAL:.xxx) in the login box and without decnet simply xxx (the logical sys$node_fullname is gone).
SYS$NODE is indeed gone too.

But I find a difference in time logicals. SYS$TIMEZONE_NAME, SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE and SYS$TIMEZONE_DAYLIGHT_SAVING are gone and SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL is 7200 instead of 3600.

Is this normal ?

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Ian Miller. — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:02:01 GMT

re timezone - what does @SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM say your time zone info is?

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Wim Van den Wyngaert — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:09:10 GMT

Ian : with decnet back up : DTSS in use.

Could it be that there is a bad config active when dtss is not used ?

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Jan van den Ende — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:29:40 GMT

Hello again Wim.

Prevent DTSS from starting:

In SYS$STARTUP:NET$LOGICALS.COM you will have to define NET$DISABLE_DTSS as TRUE
(in the SYSTEM table).

That will prevent DTSS starting.
Make sure to use NET$logicals, because otherwise you will serve your mustard after the meal is eaten.

Jan

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Ian Miller. — Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:12:05 GMT

the timezone stuff is now part of VMS (from V7.3 was lifted from DTSS).
If you do
@SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]UTC$time_setup.com show

what does it show

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Bradford Hamilton_1 — Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:17:13 GMT

> We currently have DECnet Plus (DEC AXPVMS >DECNET_OSI V7.3-2) installed.
>
>We would like to disable this from starting as >it is another layered product we do not wish >to use as we have IP.

I've been reading this thread with some interest - allow me to ask a naive question:

What forces you to use DECnet? Is there something in your system or application that is actively using DECnet? If so, is there any way to stop the system/app from using it?

Put another way, if you don't like DECnet, don't use it - I don't think you need to. Trying to get rid of DECnet may cause you more problems than just leaving it alone.

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Willem Grooters — Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:03:48 GMT

> Trying to get rid of DECnet may cause you more problems than just leaving it alone.

meaning: de-install (PROD REMOVE) ??

Well, you WILL run into problems. I tried that, and after that:
- all kinds of cluster trouble
- Even TCPIP didn't work anymore

Solution: Remove ALL .NCP and .NCL procedures and ree-installed DECNet.

So: DON't de-install. Removal of above files
may help to prevent DECNet actually starting.

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

John Gillings — Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:35:50 GMT

DECnet engineering have been formally informed of this issue. It's been acknowledged and will be addressed it in a future version or ECO.

Keep your eyes on the release notes.

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Ian Miller. — Thu, 29 Jan 2004 04:15:46 GMT

John,
which issue has been formally reported?

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Wim Van den Wyngaert — Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:14:33 GMT

Bradford : no decnet means
1) no copies in the format node::file unless the badly working /ftp
2) certain applications may no longer work. You must test everything.
3) no task to task (if used by applications)
4) if you use TCP : also check all tcp drp settings and test them (keepalive, retransmit timeout, TIME_WAIT sockets, etc)
5) etc

Re: Disabling DECnet Plus from starting.

Tony Naidoo — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:46:48 GMT

Leave it alone...