topic Re: Are this command the same ? in Operating System - OpenVMS

Are this command the same ?

SCC_2 — Fri, 17 Jun 2005 21:35:01 GMT

Instead shutdown the Vax and submit a s/a command like b/e0000000 or b thur tape.
At boot screen.

Or I just submit command after I am in the system login example :
Backup/rew/log/ign=lab/image/init dub0: mka0:saback.bck
are they the same or by doing that I might missing some files (on backup tape). I know example the operator.dat (something like that) will not get backup, since I am lockin. Or is that matter, just in case if my drive dead, will this backup o.k to install and everything back to normal.
Thanks!
SCC

Re: Are this command the same ?

Antoniov. — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 02:08:37 GMT

If you can boot/e0000000 you can
1.Use console
2.Lock interactive access
$ SET LOGIN /INTERACT=0
3.Halt every running application you know
4.Stop various services; e.g.
$ @SYS$MANAGER:UCX$SHUTDOWN !If use TCP/IP
$ @SYS$STARTUP:PWRK$SHUTDOWN !If use pathwork
$ MC LATCP SET NODE /STATE=SHUT !Stop LAT
$ MC NCP !To halt decnet
SET KN LINE STATE OFF
SET KN CIRC STATE OFF
SET EXEC STATE SHUT
5.Run backup/image
$ BACKUP/IMAGE/REW/IGN=LAB/INT/OVER=INTER -
DUB0: MKA0:SABACK.BCK/SAVE
I prefer /over=inter so your backup can't stop when find system files like pagefile and I avoid /log to make backup quicker.

Antonio Vigliotti

Re: Are this command the same ?

Bojan Nemec — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 02:20:15 GMT

SCC,

The commands are the same. Backup will complain on some open files. If there is no activity on them, they will be OK. So, if you cant go for a standalone backup, you can do this on a running system. Try to reduce the system activity in the time of backup with set logins/inter=0. One of the most vulnerable files are the queue manager files so you can stop the queue manager for the time of the backup. One other technique is to do a SHOW/QUEUE/FULL/ALL/OUTPUT=file. If something goes wrong you can refer to this file to reconstruct the queues and batch and print jobs. Also try to stop all network activity with stoping decnet and tcpip.

And one important thing, modify your backup command to /IGN=(LAB,INTER)!
The /IGNORE=INTERLOCK qualifier instruct backup to backup the open files.

Dont try to rely on such a backup on an havy active disk with user data. But for a system disk with a reduced activity can be sufficient.

Bojan

Re: Are this command the same ?

Uwe Zessin — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 02:56:44 GMT

> $ BACKUP/IMAGE/REW/IGN=LAB/INT/OVER=INTER -
> DUB0: MKA0:SABACK.BCK/SAVE
> I prefer /over=inter so your backup can't stop
> when find system files like pagefile and I avoid
> /log to make backup quicker.

That command does not sound right to me, Antonio.

BACKUP "/OVER" will translate to "/OVERLAY" - did you confuse this with MOUNT/OVERRIDE= ?

You might have thought about "BACKUP /IGNORE=(LABEL_PROCESSING, INTERLOCK)".

And do you really run all your backups with /INTERCHANGE? This limits the block size to 8192 and, at least according to the online help, drops all ACLs.

Re: Are this command the same ?

Antoniov. — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 03:10:18 GMT

Sorry,
I made a typo.
Qualifier /OVER has to changed by /IGN
BACKUP/IGN=(LAB,INTER) .... blah blah

Antonio Vigliotti

Re: Are this command the same ?

Ian Miller. — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 05:49:56 GMT

it is unpredictable if BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK will get you a valid backup or not especially in a cluster - see various ATW articles.

A standalone backup of the system disk will always get you a valid copy.

For backing up files such as queue manager etc then see

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v1/backup.html
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v3/backup_strategies.html

Re: Are this command the same ?

Joseph Huber_1 — Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:12:47 GMT

IMHO the most important part in the system disk backup is to always have a valid short term backup of the critical system files like sysuaf,rightslist,proxy database,qman database etc.
When a system disk restore ever becomes necessary, those files are always out-of-date if restored from the last image backup.
I do copy (convert) those files every night to a separate disk, so I always have a reasonable up-to-date copy to restore.
Following this rule then it is less important if the image backup is from a 'live' system or from standalone.

Re: Are this command the same ?

comarow — Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:35:24 GMT

Officially, only a non booted image backup of the system disk is supported, but 99/100
a backup/image/ignore=interlock
creates a bootable disk.

Often you will need to write boot block, regardless of the type of image backup.

I do recommend at least getting at least one backup off the CD and save it in a safe place for emergencies.

Don't forget that upgrades fragment the heck out of a system disk. It's a good time to do a backup/restore after an upgrade.

It great if you have a shadow set to remove one member of the shadow set, so if you have a problem you can go right back to the original disk. If everything is fine, that's a great candidate to do an image backup/restore.

Re: Are this command the same ?

Uwe Zessin — Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:44:01 GMT

Strange, I don't recall I have *ever* needed to update the bootblock after a restore with BACKUP/IMAGE. BACKUP should do it automatically.

Have you ever tried to find out what the problem is?

Re: Are this command the same ?

Jan van den Ende — Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:44:19 GMT

I have that same experience as Uwe.

And in a previous period, when I mainly participated in converting new systems to turn-key graphical application clusters, I _HAVE_ done more than just a few...

just my EUR 0.02

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe