topic Re: Save set file size in Operating System - OpenVMS

Save set file size

Lionel Liu — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:47:27 GMT

Hello there,

I use the following command to create a save set file

$ BACKUP/IGNORE=(INTERLOCK)/LABEL=(RSBKUP) DKC0:[000000...]*.*;* MKE500:RS_DAT.SAV/SAVE_SET/NOREWIND/log/block=65024

Then I use the following command to check the save set file size

$mount/ov=id mke500:
$dir mke500:[000000...]*.*/size

it display the RS_DAT.SAV save set file size is 16547 blocks

So the save set file size would be

16547/(2*1024)= 8.07 M

Is that right? For save set file, are they use the same way to calculate the size as the disk file?

thanks

Lionel

Re: Save set file size

Ian Miller. — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:54:51 GMT

each of the 16547 blocks will be 65024 bytes big (compared with the disk block size of 512).

(16547*65024)/(1024*1024*1024) = 1Gb

Re: Save set file size

Travis Craig — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:00:58 GMT

Lionel,

You should expect your save set to be quite a bit larger than the total size of the files you saved into it, because BACKUP adds error detection and correction codes. 10%-20% larger is probably reasonable.

--Travis Craig

Re: Save set file size

Lionel Liu — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:06:24 GMT

Thanks very much for your reply

If I am using the following command without /block=65024

$ BACKUP/IGNORE=(INTERLOCK)/LABEL=(RSBKUP) DKC0:[000000...]*.*;* MKE500:RS_DAT.SAV/SAVE_SET/NOREWIND/log

So the system will use 32256 as default block size

the save set file size would be

16547*32256/(1024*1024)= 509 M

Is that right? 32256 is the system default block size for save set file,correct?

Thanks again

Lionel

Re: Save set file size

Bojan Nemec — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:32:46 GMT

Lionel,

For tape the default block size is 8192 bytes. 32256 is the default block size (record size) for disks. See HELP BACKUP /BLOCK_SIZE.

Bojan

Re: Save set file size

Lionel Liu — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:56:41 GMT

Sorry I get a little bit more confused

Can somebody give me a example how to calculate the disk and save set file size
?

what is the system default block size for disk file and what is the system default block size for save set?

Thanks again

Lionel

Re: Save set file size

Joseph Huber_1 — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 02:52:36 GMT

Disk-block-size is -in VMS- 512 bytes, so if You have the number of blocks (with directory/size), the file size is nblocks*512 bytes.

For tape files it is in principle the same, just the block-size does vary: file size is nblocks*blocksize bytes.

The block-size of tape files (like savesets), if not known, You can get using DIRECTORY/FULL:
$ mount tape: !NOT mount/foreign
$ directory/full tape:
You get the file-size in blocks , and the record length = blocksize for fixed length records (backup savesets are fixed length records).

Re: Save set file size

Robert Atkinson — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 02:58:26 GMT

If you're trying to work out how much you can get onto the tape, remember to take into account compaction.

Most drives support compression up to 80%, so if the tape was initialised with /MEDIA=COMPACT, this will have a big effect.

Robert.

Re: Save set file size

Joseph Huber_1 — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:34:11 GMT

For the sake of completeness, why is a directory/full necessary for a save-set on tape, isn't a directory/size enough ?

Directory/size gives the size as number of blocks, but the blocksize is not known.
One can write many savesets to tape, each with different blocksize. So one needs the 'record size' from directory/full to calculate the save-set-size.

Re: Save set file size

Daniel Fernandez Illan — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:50:48 GMT

Lionel
You can obtain blocksize using:
Backup/list MKE500:RS_DAT.SAV/SAVE
and see this information on head information of save set file.
Saludos.
Daniel

Re: Save set file size

Joseph Huber_1 — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 10:55:20 GMT

Daniel,
backup/list gives the block-size, but not the number of blocks to calculate the saveset-size.
The number of blocks at the end of the listing gives the DISK blocks of the files written to the saveset , which may differ more or less from the backup save-set-size.

Re: Save set file size

Daniel Fernandez Illan — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:31:27 GMT

Joseph,
But the first information (header of backup/list contains information about size of blocks in save set
i.e.
Save set: HIT704.SAV
Written by: KIT_BUILD
UIC: [000100,000001]
Date: 5-JAN-1996 08:44:47.27
Command: BACKUP/LOG/NOREWIND COMMON*.*,HITMAN*.* MKA500:HIT704.SAV/LAB
EL=SAIGA
Operating system: OpenVMS Alpha version V1.5
BACKUP version: V1.5
CPU ID register: 80000000
Node name: _ROC::
Written on: _ROC$MKA500:
Block size: 8192
Group size: 10
Buffer count: 219

Saludos
Daniel

Re: Save set file size

Ian Miller. — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:43:33 GMT

Daniel, Joseph is saying that you can get the total size in blocks of the disk files written to the save set from the backup listing. This is in addition to getting the saveset record size from the backup header.

Re: Save set file size

Joseph Huber_1 — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 02:22:52 GMT

Yes Ian.
Daniel, of course You're right, but it does not solve Lionels problem to get the real size of a saveset on tape. It would be a bit outrageous to do a directory/size to get the number of blocks, and then a backup/list to get the blocksize. Directory/size/full gets all in one run over the tape.

Re: Save set file size

Daniel Fernandez Illan — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 02:55:19 GMT

Ian, Joseph
Thanks for your appointment.
Might another form be obtain the size of the block of save-set (backup/list), the total size of the save-set (dir/size) and multiply both values?.
But these procedures works only after backup operation, other question was obtain save set size preview (before backup).
Sorry for my english.
Saludos
Daniel.

Re: Save set file size

Ian Miller. — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 03:19:47 GMT

Daniel,
there is not currently a way to predict the size of the savset and the affect of compression. What are you trying to do - predict tape capacity?

I did post the following query on the hp advocacy site
BACKUP should display backup size summary
http://www.hpuseradvocacy.com/advocacy/metoo/metooissue.cfm?IssueID=1795

and recieved a response
http://www.hpuseradvocacy.com/Response/jan2005.htm
which says they are planning on adding some things.

Re: Save set file size

Joseph Huber_1 — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 04:27:15 GMT

Daniel,
the first question: multiplying dir/size and block-size from backup/list gives the correct size - but You will not want it, because You have to go over the tape TWICE and read the entire savesets to list them.
DIRECTORY/FULL returns both, the number of blocks and the block-size, and it does it in one go for all savesets on tape, and it does it much faster: it does not read the entire savesets, just the file-headers on tape.

Ian has answered the second question, great if it becomes true in a future backup version !