topic Re: Using ODS-5 disks in Operating System - OpenVMS

Using ODS-5 disks

Shael Richmond — Wed, 28 Jul 2004 16:46:33 GMT

We currently still use ODS-2 for most of our disks (except Oracle). But since the volume sizes have been getting bigger we have been losing disk space because of the large cluster size. I'm getting ready to move from a RA10000 to a new MSA1000 so I was considering switching most of the disks to ODS-5. Has anyone seen problems with ODS-5 especially if they not using the ODS-5 features? Also
if I initialize a disk as ODS-5 can I do an image restore from an ODS-2 disk(w/NOINIT) or do I have to restore as an ODS-2 and convert after?

Really any feedback about use of ODS-5 disks would be appreciated.

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

David B Sneddon — Wed, 28 Jul 2004 19:34:29 GMT

Shael,

We have been using ODS-5 disks for a while
now and have seen no problems.
Yes you can initialize a disk as ODS-5 and then
restore an image backup of an ODS-2 disk (with
/NOINIT).
The only "issue" we have seen is in development
when you set your parse style to extended and
forget to set it back to traditional -- some
commands don't work as expected. We have seen
NO problems in our production environments.

Regards
Dave

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Martin P.J. Zinser — Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:24:43 GMT

Hi,

only two minor issues.

If you use tar to unpack archives on ODS-5 disks it will recreate the files with the original names (e.g. several dots) and other applications might not be prepared to handle this. Use -o resp /ODS2 to force conversion to ODS2 like names.

Also I seem to remember that older versions of Zip had problems creating archives using [...] syntax for the input files on ODS-5 disks.

Greetings, Martin

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Uwe Zessin — Thu, 29 Jul 2004 00:20:24 GMT

I thought that the large bitmap feature is available on ODS-2, too.

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Antoniov. — Thu, 29 Jul 2004 03:29:12 GMT

We are using mixed environment without problems.
Pathwork works better.

Antonio Vigliotti

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Shael Richmond — Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:23:52 GMT

I went back and reread the article that HP had sent me and it does say I can use smaller cluster size on ODS-2 disks.

Of course that makes the decision harder since I can stay with ODS-2. Right now I'm leaning towards going to ODS-5 since there doesn't seem to be a lot of issues. That way I prepared as products require ODS-5 like Oracle.

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Uwe Zessin — Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:36:45 GMT

You can always convert later on - there is even a 'RENAME' utility for files created by Pathworks (it works well and fast). If I remember correctly, then you need to do a private mount before you can change to ODS-5.

That can be a problem if your system disk is on a fibre channel attached disk. I have seen version conflicts were I could not mount an MSA1000-provided disk while I had booted from CD-ROM - I needed a patched-up VMS version on a local SCSI disk. Keep this in mind for restores, too.

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Jan van den Ende — Fri, 30 Jul 2004 04:33:25 GMT

Shael,

If you would so wish, there is no issue at all in staying with ODS-2.
Ever since VMS 7.2 we initialized all our new disks ODS-2 with clustersize=4, gradually phasing out old, smaller disks.
Not a single problem with that.

Jan

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Jim Strehlow — Fri, 30 Jul 2004 16:34:40 GMT

Avoid ODS-5 disks if you have software that is incompatible with ODS-5 disks.
Some old version of a deframenting product that does not support ODS-5 disks could be a problem.
You might have software that could break when it can not handle mixed-case filenames or deep sub-directory trees.

I have had no problems with Oracle, vmszip, or other utility programs on OpenVMS v7.2-1 through v7.3-1

Jim, Alameda, CA, USA

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Martin P.J. Zinser — Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:16:25 GMT

Hi,

one more thing, since Advanced Server was mentioned. At least with a bit older versions of AS while it was recommended to have the data disks on ODS-5 the application itself should reside on an ODS-2 disk. Not sure if this is still true with the lates 7.3A ECO3, I suggest to check the release notes.

Greetings, Martin

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Malleka Ramachandran — Wed, 04 Jan 2006 12:43:29 GMT

I have a question regarding the ODS 5. I tried to download the JDK on OpenVMS 8.2 and I read that the installation requires the disk to be ODS 5 formatted. Since we only have one system disk, I was planning on backing up the existing ODS 2 disk on a tape, initializing the disk to ODS 5 and restoring from the tape.
From other posts in this forum, I understand that it is wise to stay with ODS 2 unless there is a compelling reason. Since JDK is my only reason for moving to ODS 5, I would like to get feedback from other members on this.
I was even thinking of ignoring that part about ODS 5 and going ahead and installing JDK on the ODS 2 to see if it works. Has anyone tried this before?

Thanks,
Malleka

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Ian Miller. — Wed, 04 Jan 2006 12:49:56 GMT

Malleka,
java needs ODS5 and won't work without it.

(BTW Its best to start your own thread for new questions)

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Karl Rohwedder — Wed, 04 Jan 2006 12:58:37 GMT

Shael,

a backup is allways o.k., but you can boot an OS CD and issue a 'set volume /Structure' command to convert to ODS-5.

You could also use the LD (Logical Disk) facility to create an ODS-5 disk in a container file on your ODS-2 disk (Since 8.2 LD is part of VMS, else see freeware CD's). So you are able to experiment with ODS-5 without changing your systemdisk.

regards Kalle

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Steven Schweda — Wed, 04 Jan 2006 14:49:35 GMT

I also recommend adding an experimental ODS5
disk (real or LD), and testing _everything_
before converting. MMS, for example, still
does not deal well with lower-case file
names. The TCPIP V5.4 FTP server provides
but does not accept ^-escaped characters in
file names. I assume that there are other
problems still lying in wait for the
careless.

Conversion _to_ ODS5 is much easier than
conversion back _from_ ODS5.

> Also I seem to remember that older versions
> of Zip had problems creating archives using
> [...] syntax for the input files on ODS-5
> disks.

The latest released Info-ZIP programs (Zip
2.31, UnZip 5.52) are not as good with ODS5
as the unreleased beta Zip 3.0e and UnZip
6.00c, but specific complaints are always
welcome. (Versions even older could easily
be even worse.)

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Cass Witkowski — Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:19:34 GMT

Has CSWING ever been updated to work with ODS-5?

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Karl Rohwedder — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 00:49:51 GMT

As far as I know, CSWING has NOT been updated.

regards Kalle

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Rinkens — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 01:55:44 GMT

Hi

One off the things what happened to us when did go from ODS2 to ODS5 was the following.

When you ftp from unix to vms (or form vms to unix) using ODS2 then the file name you see on your vms is for example:

$ ftp open unix node
get TestFile.txt
exit
$ dir testfile.txt

TESTFILE.TXT (file upper case characters)

On a vms system with ODS5 you get the following

$ ftp open unix node
get TestFile.txt
exit

$dir testfile.txt

TestFile.txt (file with upper and lower characters)

So if you have some scripts with for example f$search in it where you are looking for
TESTFILE.TXT, then you will not find anything.

You have to check your application and command files, before you decide to go to ODS5.

Regards Kor

Re: Using ODS-5 disks

Steven Schweda — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 02:12:50 GMT

> $dir testfile.txt
>
> TestFile.txt (file with upper and lower characters)

> So if you have some scripts with for
> example f$search in it where you are
> looking for TESTFILE.TXT, then you will
> not find anything.

Well, no, not always:

ALP $ dire /date /prot /size ALP$DKA100:[TEST]

Directory ALP$DKA100:[TEST]

TestFile.txt;1 0 5-JAN-2006 01:05:00.82 (RWED,RWED,RE,)

Total of 1 file, 0 blocks.

ALP $ set process /case_lookup = sensitive
ALP $ write sys$output f$search( "D5:[TEST]TESTFILE.TXT")

ALP $

But:

ALP $ set proc /case_lookup = blind
ALP $ write sys$output f$search( "D5:[TEST]TESTFILE.TXT")
ALP$DKA100:[TEST]TestFile.txt;1

As the HELP (SET PROCESS /CASE_LOOKUP) says:

HP strongly recommends that you use caution
when enabling case sensitivity in your
processes.