topic Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal in Operating System - OpenVMS

Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Stéphane Boneff — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 03:28:43 GMT

Hello,

To remplace old terminal X, we would like to know if it is possible to use Wyse S50 terminal to display Decwindows application ?
(by TCP/IP).
(VAX VMS 6.1 and AXP VMS 6.2)
is it a particular setup of Decwindows ?

I don't find anything about that here.

Thanks.

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Wim Van den Wyngaert — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 03:45:26 GMT

This is a graphical station with IP but no hard disk. Has a Linux with X in it. Should be possible as with any PC running something like KEA!X or REFLECTION/X.

Wim

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Wim Van den Wyngaert — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 03:54:45 GMT

You can use SSH
http://www.wyse.com/products/winterm/reference/5series/883840_02B/html/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm

or XDM (must be enabled on VMS)
http://www.wyse.com/products/winterm/reference/5series/883840_02B/html/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm

Wim

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Joseph Huber_1 — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 03:57:39 GMT

VMS6.x is quite old, and some newer features maybe missing,but
simply displaying decwindows applications does not need more than a TCPIP stack on the VMS side (HP TCPIP services, Process.com multinet or tcpware, others).
Then enable the TCPIP transport in
sys$manager:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM (copy from DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.TEMPLATE if not yet there).

Then the user needs to define the DECW$DISPLAY by
$ set display/create/transp=TCPIP/node=your_wyse

and start the DECWindows application.

The above assumes that the Xterminal is setup to allow the client access to the display.
(If it only allows secure access, then You need SSH server on the VMS side allowing X11 forwarding, but that's another story).

If You want a complete DECWindows SESSION on the X terminal, then You need an XDM server on the VMS side, available on all newer TCPIP implementations.

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Wim Van den Wyngaert — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 04:22:27 GMT

Seems my link didn't arrive well.
Its chaper 2, User profile, SSH.

If you use it, pass as command line @script and in the script

set dis/crea/transport=tcpip/node=ip_address
@cde$system_common:[bin]xsession

Wim

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Joseph Huber_1 — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 05:06:36 GMT

A note on Wim's example using SSH connections:

The "set display/create" results in an X11 session which is NOT running over the SSH connection, and is thus not encrypted.

Usually in an SSH connection with X11 forwarding the SSH server (on the VMS side in this case) is setting up the display on its secure socket, and should not be overwritten by a new display. Simply start the application (or session manager), then all X11 traffic runs over the SSH connection.

The OP says Vax VMS 6.1 and Alpha VMS 6.2: as far I remember there is no CDE (new desktop), but only classic DECWindows desktop, which eventually can be started by
@sys$manager:decw$startsm

But all is speculation about what TCPIP/SSH product is available at the OP site.

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Richard Brodie_1 — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 05:35:11 GMT

I have had sessions running on a S50 from VMS, although I'm not using it any more. You may not be able to get it to work on a system without Xauth authentication (< Motif 1.3).

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Joseph Huber_1 — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 06:10:15 GMT

I'm running applications from VMS 7.3-1 (Motif 1.2-6, i.e. without xauth) to a Linux display from an SSH session with X11 forwarding.

For VMS 6.x it maybe easier to find an SSH server than to get Motif 1.3 :
Process Software offers SSH for TCPIP services,
and I'm still using Dave Jones OSU SSH server inside our LAN
(SSH v1 only, but does X11 forwarding).

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Wim Van den Wyngaert — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 06:20:29 GMT

I doubt that you will find XDM or SSH on your 6.x systems.

May be just make a script that you execute on the server. Permanently.

$begin:
$ set noon
$ set display ...
$ @...xsession
$ wait 00:01
$ goto begin

This may work.

Wim

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Richard Brodie_1 — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 06:48:25 GMT

"I'm running applications from VMS 7.3-1 (Motif 1.2-6, i.e. without xauth) to a Linux display from an SSH session with X11 forwarding. "

Well yes, doing it to a Linux system would be easy. I was talking about the Wyse S50 though; whole different ball game.

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Joseph Huber_1 — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 11:14:10 GMT

But the docu indicates the Wyse S50 IS a Linux system providing SSH. So if the VMS system has SSH server honoring X11 forwarding, then it should work, no ?

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Richard Brodie_1 — Tue, 04 Jul 2006 12:28:56 GMT

"But the docu indicates the Wyse S50 IS a Linux system providing SSH. So if the VMS system has SSH server honoring X11 forwarding, then it should work, no ?"

The point is that these devices are sold as appliances and are (short of blowing new firmware) rather inflexible.

I don't know whether you can configure the SSH client to request X forwarding. On a quick look, I couldn't see any UI for it but I may be mistaken.

I would just be a little cautious in assuming you easily can hack the client end to do what you want. When most of the filesystems are read only, it becomes a bit harder.

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Wim Van den Wyngaert — Wed, 05 Jul 2006 01:48:32 GMT

I wonder what keyboard mapping options are available ...
VMS without a DEC layout is a pain in the ass.

Wim

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Joseph Huber_1 — Wed, 05 Jul 2006 03:02:27 GMT

>> I don't know whether you can configure the SSH client to request X forwarding.

The S50 reference manual points to Ericom's PowerTerm for terminal emulation/SSH, and PT has "enable X11 forwarding" in its setup menu.

Since SSH is the only option for VMS6.x (no xauth/kerberos), I would first see SSH is working on VMS, then take Wyses evaluation offer.

The VMS keyboard question: the few times I used PT, I had no problems using SMG oriented programs (EDT,TPU et al.); Ericoms VTx emulation is quite good.

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Wim Van den Wyngaert — Wed, 05 Jul 2006 03:56:12 GMT

You can always start X on a *nix machine that has ssh. Then do telnet/rlogin to the vms node and after set display you can start the application you need.

Wim

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Bojan Nemec — Wed, 05 Jul 2006 04:10:00 GMT

About the keyboard mapping.
If the keyboard mapping is not OK you can always play with xmodmap which is also available on DECWindows (decw$utils:xmodmap).

See the attachment in this thread:

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=904409

Bojan

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Joseph Huber_1 — Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:42:27 GMT

Wim, beg Your pardon, but that's complete nonsense.
We are not talking about some Linux, but about a Wyse S50 thin client. As Richard Brodie said, it only allows "secured" X11 access either via xauth/Kerberos support, or secure shell tunneling (SSH with X forwarding).

Did You ever try what You suggest: login through SSH, telnet to VMS, set display/node=WHAT ?
In a Linux SSH login, DISPLAY is always
localhost:someport_created_by_sshd
What does Your VMS specify as /node or /server ?
Your suggestion only works if the display server allows unrestricted access a la "xhost + myvms", and then SSH is irrelevant.

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Wim Van den Wyngaert — Wed, 05 Jul 2006 09:00:03 GMT

Joseph,

Sorry, didn't read the message that it was SSH only. But if it's not, it could work.
Do the people who make these devices ever think of old stuff ?

Wim

Re: Decwindows on Wyse S50 (linux) terminal

Joseph Huber_1 — Wed, 05 Jul 2006 09:17:49 GMT

Well, in a private or small business environment it is probably no issue, but in bigger LANs, X11 traffic is really a security hole, if not encrypted or kerberos authenticated.

And the problem with VMS is only the old version 6, the actual VMS all have xauth,Kerberos,SSH/SSL, and can work in such an environment.
And SSH is available for VMS back to 5.5-2.