topic Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha in Operating System - OpenVMS

Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

mike gozaloff — Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:12:24 GMT

We're looking to re-expose some existing C API's currently hosted in Tuxedo (non-transactional) on OpenVMS. We have a few PCs using tpclient talking to one VMS system that in turn talks (Tux) to the production VMS cluster.

HP has suggested using the Web Services Toolkit. Once we've created our JavaBeans using the WSIT, what options do folks recommend for hosting them for remote access?
Performance and stability are of utmost importance.

Does anyone have examples of how you used the WSIT?

Thanks,

gozer

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

Arch_Muthiah — Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:49:31 GMT

Hi Mike,

< Performance and stability are of utmost
< importance

I would suggest you to consider WASD, Web Server from VSM Software Services, if you look for better performamnce.

http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/htd/
http://wasd.vsm.com.au/

WASD is specifically for supporting intra-organizational hypertext environments on HP OpenVMS platforms, including HP Integrity servers and HP AlphaServer systems.

Archunan

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

Andy Bustamante — Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:08:58 GMT

I've also used WASD internally with no issues. If this is running in an environment where you need support you can also consider the Secure Web Server, essentially an HP port of Apache.

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws.html

"OpenVMS with Apache, Osu, and Wasd: The Nonstop Webserver" by Alan Winston can give you a good comparison and setup information in one convenient place. See http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1555582648/102-1646938-8114564?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance

Andy

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

John Gillings — Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:40:10 GMT

gozer,

This is what we call a "how long is a piece of string" type question.

It all depends on what you're trying to achieve. I'm guessing you're trying to publish your application as a web page, rather than a client/server model? There is an infinite variety of options to choose from.

Have you installed a web server on OpenVMS? There are several options. You then have numerous choices of middle ware, depending on your requirements and preferences.

It's unlikely you'll get anything really useful from this kind of forum. This type of very general question is usually answered by consultants after the exchange of hard currency. You've obviously in contact with HP, perhaps you should ask them to recommend a solution for your specific problem, or recommend a consultant to assist.

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

Wim Van den Wyngaert — Tue, 22 Nov 2005 02:34:32 GMT

If you consider WASD, http://www.coastcapitalsavings.com/ is running on OpenVMS. It's made by Mark Daniel who maintains the source code of WASD (SPOF ?) and who gives great support.

I'm using WASD since 1999 and only had issues with gzip encoding. MYSQL, PHP, ... worked but I'm only a beginner.

fwiw

Wim

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

Ian Miller. — Tue, 22 Nov 2005 04:27:32 GMT

You probably need some consultancy time but if you want to talk informally then see this persons blog who is experimenting in this area

http://sysmgr.blogspot.com/

and the VAMP site may also be of interest
http://www.issinoho.com:8080/phpbb2/

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

Jeremy Begg — Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:39:32 GMT

See also the next issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. I've just been working at a site which is using WASD and Tuxedo (although the latter isn't mentioned in the article). We used SOAP-structured documents and LIBXML.

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

labadie_1 — Wed, 23 Nov 2005 04:23:24 GMT

If you need good response time, take Wasd. It is usually 5 times faster than Apache on Vms, for various reasons (Wasd uses Ast, which is unique to Vms and highly efficient, the Apache port works, but is not great on performance, and Apache has been written for Unix, not for Vms).

When I went in December 2003 to 3 days porting Vms (Alpha or Vax) code to Itanium, with some friends, we noticed that we recompiled Wasd on Itanium rx2600 (that we unpacked) without any modification (except for the test on Vax, Alpha, so we added Itanium). Compile and run ! This gives you a clue about the quality of the code...

If you need an official support, I can sell it to you fo one $ a year :-)

As previously said, the support on the Wasd mailing list is very good, and fast. One might say that Mark Daniel may decide one day to go fishing and give up computing (without considering more funest circumstances, like "meeting" a bus), but there is a bunch of highly talented people on the mailing-list, and of course, all the code is available.

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

mike gozaloff — Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:57:42 GMT

Thanks for all the repiles. We are trying to schedule a meeting with the HP folks that suggested WSIT to see what kind of container/manager they had in mind. It probably won't happen until next week due to the holidays.

We develop and test the system but HP hosts it and has input into what system software is installed (they are the ones asking us to replace Tuxedo). We are just trying to understand all options before we meet with them to make sure they proposing something that fits the customer needs.

WSAD looks interesting but it may come down to a question of support. This project we are working on only processes a fraction of a percentage of all the Tux transactions that enter the system. However, I'm sure a long term goal is to use this project as a proof of concept for a total Tux replacement.

We just got WSIT installed and are trying to expose one C API to see what kind of Java gets generated. Unfortunately, we don't have access to an I64 system so we do not have obj2idl. We'll have to manually create the IDL. Does anyone know if we can run the obj2idl jar on Windows or Unix?

Thanks a bunch!

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

mike gozaloff — Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:55:26 GMT

My bad, I just checked the IA64 kit. OBJ2IDL is an EXE. Grrr.

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

sunilk_1 — Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:32:42 GMT

HP has a test drive site where you can access the various Integrity and OS combinations to try stuff out. You may be able to use that to run your obj2idl converter.

http://www.testdrive.hp.com/

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

Mark Daniel_2 — Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:33:53 GMT

Hi Mike.

The forthcoming OpenVMS Technical Journal V7 (Jan 2006) has an article entitled ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WASD in SOAP/XML Transaction-Oriented Environments

Overview

The WASD VMS Hypertext Services Package is a functional, general-purpose Web service with sufficient additional specialized capabilities to find a niche in transaction-oriented network services. This article explains how to use WASD to deliver SOAP remote procedure calls. The first section describes the persistent scripting mechanism provided by WASD. This is followed by two case studies that explain the development of SOAP-based transaction systems in which WASD provides the Web infrastructure to interface front- and back-end processing. The case studies describe technology choices, implementation details, system performance, and general outcomes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If this is of any relevance drop me a line and I'll pass it on to the contributing authors. You might be able to bend their ears for an opinon. I do not think I could send you a pre-release of the article because it now belongs to OpenVMS Engineering.

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

mike gozaloff — Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:11:31 GMT

Sunil,

I took your suggestion and logged onto a test drive system. The WSIT is not installed there, so I moved the EXE and sample code to see if it would run. The EXE crashes on the sample file. The EXE appears intact; it displays the usage message if you mess up the params.

Was worth a shot.

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

Mark Daniel_2 — Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:30:07 GMT

Oops, didn't notice the post by Jeremy Begg.

>See also the next issue of the OpenVMS
>Technical Journal. I've just been working at
>a site which is using WASD and Tuxedo
>(although the latter isn't mentioned in the
>article). We used SOAP-structured documents
>and LIBXML.

He's one of the contributing authors I refered to.

Re: Hosting Web Services on VMS Alpha

davidsullivan — Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:23:12 GMT

Hello Mike, I'm the project lead for the OpenVMS web services projects including WSIT.

Sorry you have had such a hard time getting your XML defined.

If you would like I'll work with you to get the XML generated/written for your application.

Contact me at davidjsullivan@hp.com