topic Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ? in Operating System - OpenVMS

Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Miikka Kolari — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:50:29 GMT

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this message, but I can't find any solution to this problem

I'm not a professional on VMS systems.

We've got this old machine OpenVMS Alpha 7-2.1 and we're supposed to get it open so we can check the ip address se we can connect our PC to it for retrieving the data(mostly user accounts and such)

The problem is that once we get to the Username/Password section, we can type the Username but the password box wont allow any typing what so ever. I've managed to get pass the password/username system by Halting se system and booting with -flags 0,1 to the Sysboot section

From SYSBOOT
SET/STARTUP:OPA0
SET WINDOW_SYSTEM 0
CONTINUE

Now we get to the $ which, as far as I understand is the console where I'm supposed to type all the commaands, so I'm in the System now?

From $ I can use SHOW USERS, SHOW MEMORY, SHOW DEVICES etc commands.. which show some information. From Devices I can see the system has DRA0 through 3 and 0 Is the Mounted one, which holds the system?

As far as other commands, I'm getting the next error messages:

When i'm trying run system manager commands? example RUN SYS$SYSTEM:SYSMAN or $MC SYSMAN, etc. Tried many different commands, all I'm getting is

-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image SECURESHRP
CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file $40$DRA0: (SYS0.COMMON)(SYSLIB)SECURESHRP.EXE;1
SYSTEM-R-PROTINSTALL,protected images must be installed

I've never handled OpenVMS before, and only thing I've got is a manual but it dosent offer me the right solution for this problem even though I've read it through.

Thanks for the time!
Miikka

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

The Brit — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:22:34 GMT

Welcome Miikka,

First comment, when entering the password the terminal will not "echo". It will not show anything.

Type in the password (the cursor will not move) and then hit .

If the password is correct it will log you in. If it is not, you will get

Username:
Password:
User authorization failure

If the account is locked because of too many failures, then boot as you did above, then

$ set default sys$system:
$ run authorize
UAF> "reset the system password"
UAF> exit
$

At this point, virtually nothing is available. My next step would be to shut the system down and boot normally. Then login as SYSTEM, using the new password that I just set. (Note you may have to reset the password on login)

If this moves you forward, good luck. If not, post some additional information. System Type would be useful.

Dave.

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Miikka Kolari — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:32:02 GMT

Thank you Dave for the fast reply

One problem with the boot is the print queues, when I boot the system normally the queues run for 1Â½hours which is very frustrating if I cant even log in.

Is there any solution to skip the queues from SYSBOOT?

I've tried commands to bypass the queues but they didn't work either. I'll give it a try now if the passwords really work even though it ain't showing anything.

Miikka

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Robert Gezelter — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:39:12 GMT

Mikka,

Actually, you are only halfway there when you get the "$". And that is likely the source of your problem.

Executing the SET /STARTUP=OPA: command stops the system before SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM executes. Thus, one has only the bare minimum aspects of a system running. This is why there is a problem.

First, one can dispense with the SET WINDOW_SYSTEM 0 command. It will not be needed.

At the "$" prompt, do the following:
$ spawn
$ @[sys0.syscommon.sysexe]startup

Now, STARTUP.COM will execute, and most of the system facilities will be available to use.

One can now do:

$ set default sys$system
$ mcr authorize

One can then reset the passwords on the SYSTEM account (and any others).

Alternatively, in your case, you can access the utilities needed to modify the IP settings. Since the OP did not mention which IP package is in use, the commands may differ. In Digital/Compaq/HP TCP/IP Services, the command file to manage the TCP/IP settings is SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG.COM.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Jon Pinkley — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:41:59 GMT

Miikka,

When you set startup to OPA0, VMS does not go through its normal startup sequence, which normally installs images, etc.

The VMS FAQ has the procedure spelled out.

From memory, you need to do something like the following:

SYSBOOT> SET/STARTUP:OPA0
SYSBOOT> SET WINDOW_SYSTEM 0
SYSBOOT> SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0
SYSBOOT> CONTINUE

...

$ SPAWN ! this is important so you don't get logged out
$ @SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM ! this does everything the normal startup does, then logs out

Since you were in a subprocess (spawned), you will still be logged into the SYSTEM account.

Be aware that it is easy to destroy data from the system account. We have outlined how to "hotwire" the car, but you really need to know how to drive. If the data is important, consider hiring someone to help, you will have a much higher probability of successfully recovering the data in a timely manner.

Good luck,

Jon

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Robert Gezelter — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:45:25 GMT

Mikka,

With all due respect, I must disagree with Jon, the SET WINDOW_SYSTEM command is not needed. The use of WRITESYSARAMS is a sound suggestion, as it prevents the modified setting for /STARTUP from being written to the disk (if this is forgotten in the moment, it is straightforward to fix settings using the SYSGEN utility).

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Hoff — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:06:02 GMT

The meaning of WINDOW_SYSTEM parameter has changed among the latter V7.* releases. In some cases and in older OpenVMS and DECwindows releases. In more recent releases, there was an ill-documented or undocumented retirement of the WINDOW_SYSTEM parameter in favor of the use of the DECW$IGNORE_WORKSTATION logical name. The combination here tends to prevent the DECwindows startup from its habit of issuing a command that causes the startup to immediately exit; that approach works for getting DECwindows started, but not for getting at the $ prompt.

I've updated the directions to point to the need for both as a brute-force solution here.

http://64.223.189.234/node/204

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

The Brit — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:12:58 GMT

Miikka,
Regarding your problem with the queues. You could stop the queue manager, however I'm pretty sure that will abort any jobs which might be running.

Keeping that in mind,

see where the queue manager is running,

$ show queue/manager/full
Master file: DSA101:[VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]QMAN$MASTER.DAT;

Queue manager SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER, running, on NODE01::
/ON=(NODE01,NODE02)
Database location: DSA101:[VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]

To stop the queue manager enter

$ Stop /Queue /Manager /Cluster

(/cluster is required even if you dont have a cluster)

To restart the queue manager, enter

$ Start /Queue /Manager /on=::

Dave.

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Miikka Kolari — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:43:14 GMT

Hi once again!

This one seemed to work just fine, thank you for the advice Jon.

SYSBOOT> SET/STARTUP:OPA0
SYSBOOT> SET WINDOW_SYSTEM 0
SYSBOOT> SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0
SYSBOOT> CONTINUE

$ SPAWN
$ @SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM

No I'm apparently inside the system. Commands seem to work and I got into the UAF and was able to change the system password from the link from Hoff, thanks.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to remove the queues, I'm in need of some help in that part. I've typed the
$ show queue/manager/full >which gave me the next thing:

Master file: $40$DRA0:[VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]QMAN$MASTER.DAT;

Queue manager SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER, stopped
/ON=(*)
Database location: SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]

The thing is that only thing I need from this system is to retrieve some accounts by connecting this machine to a PC which could just leech them out from it. After that, this system is going to the junkyard.

When they gave the system to us, they had a backup for it in a tape, so no worries (hope so) if some files are destroyed. Thats why I'm trying to remove the queue thing completely since its unnecessary, atleast I think so.

So after removing the Queues maybe I could log in and look for the TCPIP config. Or can it be checked/modified from here?(since I seem to be in the system now)

As Robert mentioned that I didn't mention which IP packages are in use, or are there any. Is there a way to see the system packages or the same sorts of things, so I could give little more information here?

Thanks for all of you who are willing to help!

Best Regards,
Miikka

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Volker Halle — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:55:26 GMT

Miikka,

now that you have re-set the system password, you could boot the system with minimum startup. This will prevent the queue manager from starting.

Boot into SYSBOOT, then:

SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN"
SYSBOOT> C

$ PROD SHOW PROD will show the installed software.

$ UCX SHOW VERS should show the IP software version, if it's the HP TCPIP stack.

Volker.

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Robert Gezelter — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:24:03 GMT

Miikka,

On a side note, rather than sending the machine to the junkyard, you might want to get permission to list its availability in the comp.os.vms newsgroup.

There are many hobbyists looking for surplus hardware. Some Finn who is looking for a system would be more than happy to pickup the system and give it a good home.

Before doing this, the disks would need to be overwritten (erased) to protect your data. Otherwise, this is a far more environmentally friendly option than the "junkyard".

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Miikka Kolari — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:33:34 GMT

Hello

Now I got past the queues and logged in, seems like it since now its showing LAP40_$ now as the LAP40 is the systems name.

$ PROD SHOW PROD worked also and this is what it gave me:

DEC AXPVMS:
AMDS V7.1 full LP
BNU V1.8 full LP
DECNET_HASE_IV V7.1-2 full LP
DFU V2.6-1 full LP
DWMOTIF V1.2-5 full LP
HYPERHELP V5.1-2 full LP
NS_NAV_EXPORT V3.0-3 full LP
ODL V1.0 platform
OPENVMS V7.1-2 platform
SWXCR V3.0 full LP
VMS V7.1-2 Oper System

Hope this will help

$ UCX SHOW VERS didn't work though.

Now we've got past the login phase and it seems to accept commands fine now, now the problem is to get a PC connected to this system so we can retrieve the data needed.

Rober Gezelter,
If there might be any intrested in taking this system in, I'd be more than willing giving this out for the ones who are keen to this kind of systems.

Miikka

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Miikka Kolari — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:36:14 GMT

I just found out that there is a some program (client) which is installed on PC and used to connect to this system and through that we'll be able to retrieve the data

Miikka

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Miikka Kolari — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:56:28 GMT

I logged in from the normal system with the change password, now I can navigate with the mouse too.

Theres DECmail, DECterm which leads to the same kind of console LAP40_$ , File Manager - sysmgr, four different workspaces, application managers and all sorts of things.

The program used is named Reflection.

Miikka

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Miikka Kolari — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:20:51 GMT

Sorry for posting so many times in a row.

So the problem is that how can I see/set the IP or address for the OpenVMS? so I can connect this PC through the Reflection program for data retrieving. I've got a cabel running through Openvms > Router, and from Router to PC (Should it work that simple?)

Little more info: We got the Reflection program and the old settings it used to have. When it's started it's automaticly trying to connect to LAP12 through TELNET(old startup setting) but it cant resolve the host name anymore which aint a surprise.

I really appreciate the help so far since I haven't worked on OpenVMS before, ever. Thanks alot!
Miikka

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Robert Gezelter — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:02:49 GMT

Miikka,

There are three generally used TCPIP packages:
- TCP/IP Services
- Multinet
- TCPware

If you are running TCP Services, execute the command:

$ @ SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG

and follow the directions for the Core Environment; then the choice for Interfaces.

For Multinet, the command will be:
$ MULTINET CONFIGURE

the SHOW command will then display the current settings.

I do not have a TCPWare machine handy to be precise about the steps there.

In all cases, you will have to shutdown and restart (at a minimum, the TCP stack).

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

marsh_1 — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:04:13 GMT

hi,

you would use:-

$ @sys$manager:tcpip$config

choose option 1 and under there you can configure your interfaces and routing.

or you can use ifconfig if you are more familiar with that.

$ @sys$manager:tcpip$define_commands
$ ifconfig -h (for help)

hth

Re: Username/Password - Commands are refused - Protection? ? ?

Miikka Kolari — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 08:11:28 GMT

Just found out what TCPIP package this is using, it's TCPWare.

Trying to figure out how to set the ip configurations

Found some manual:
http://vms.process.com/ftp/tcpware/documentation/install.pdf

Tried this one
@TCPWARE:CNFNET MENU

Which gave me bunch of options to configure things, but this might take a while testing and trying things out.

Miikka