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Problem with Bi Directional Optics

 
GKF
Visitor

Problem with Bi Directional Optics

I have a 5820 and a 5400 that I need to connect across a single strand of SMF. I have tried to pair a Comware and Provision optics (J9142B and JD099B), and Iris tells me that the connector directions are not compatible. If I swap the J9142B for a J9143B, then I do not even get the option to try make the connection.

 

In an actual test, I put a J9142B in the 5400 and a J9243B in the 5820, but the 5820 does not recognise the option. Normally if I put a Provision optic in a Comware switch, i get an alarm, but it still works.

 

Is there a similar option to enable use of unsupported optics on the

 

Tested the optic in a Cisco 2960S, and it came up after enabling option to use unsupported tranceiver.

 

 

What do I do? Tell the customer that our open standards based switches don't support our own optics? HP really need to get the whole Optic thing sorted. There should be 1 part number irrespective if it goes into server, Provision or Comware (Imagine if Cisco had different optics for Catalyst and Nexus) :-(

 

George Ferns

HPN Pre Sales Architect

Ingram Micro NZ

11 REPLIES
SCOOTER
Esteemed Contributor

Re: Problem with Bi Directional Optics

Hello George,

 

I can understand your pain when it comes to transceiver compatability.

 

There are a few explanations why you would not get a connection. The JD099B in a 5820, I believe that transceiver is not supported in the 5820.

 

The J9142B and JD099B are both downstream hence there would never be a connection. The J9142B downstream should be paired with a J9143B upstreamand I believe that transceiver is not supported in the 5820.

 

There is no SW or command to enable unsupported transceivers in the Provision or Comware switches as far as I know.

 

Regarding the open standards compatability I suggest you contact your HP partner account manager to discuss this.

 

Best regards

 

 

VoIP-Buddy
HPE Pro

Re: Problem with Bi Directional Optics

George,

 

I would recommend opening a case with support to go through this with you.  We need more information than you provide...

 

- On the 5400, the part number(s) of the module(s) that you are trying the optics with

- Software versions on both the 5400 and 5820

- Any errors reported in the logs on both switches

- The type of fiber being used... SMF but what are the specifics

- The testing you have done with the 3 transceivers that you have tried

 

From recent experience, there is more to an SFP than meets the eye.  There is EEPROM space for the driver code in them and space for other platform specific information.  It is that platform specific information that determines whether an SFP will work in one switch or another.  Comware and ProCurve do things differently and that is why there are different part numbers for each platform.

 

As long as you are using supported transceivers on each of the switches you should be ok.  If not then this is something that the support teams can help with.

 

With all that said, all 3 of your transceivers are Bi-directional transceivers.  They are usually installed in matched pairs because the transmit and receive wavelengths need to be flipped in order for them to talk.

 

Unless the transceivers are on the 5820 datasheet, they are not supported.  There is not a lot of support for Bi-directional transceivers on non-chassis based switches.  There is more support on the chassis based switches.

 

On the 5820, a straight SMF connection transceiver would be the JD119B.  If you can find something compatible on the 5400 you should be good to go.

 

David

VoIP-Buddy
HPE Pro

Re: Problem with Bi Directional Optics

George,

 

FYI... the JD119B transceiver is defined as a 1gb LX 10Km transceiver.  As long as there is a compatible one on the 5400 you should be ok.

 

David

GKF
Visitor

Re: Problem with Bi Directional Optics

Thanks

 

Nowhere does it indicate whether the comware optics are up stream(U) or downstream(D). I used Iris to try an figure this out. I configured a 5820-14 with a 2 port sfp+ card which does take the BiDi optics, and then attemted different connection options. What is the Comware paired optic for J9142B, and what switches is it supported in.

 

The customer only has a single strand of fibre, so using LX or LH is not an option.

 

It is very dissapointing that the 5820-24 does not support ANY bidi optics. 

 

G

VoIP-Buddy
HPE Pro

Re: Problem with Bi Directional Optics

So the customer has a single strand of fiber, not SMF?   Which is why you need the bi-directonal transceiver. 

 

Why did you pick transceivers that were for long distances if LX or LH is not an option?

 

All I can recommend is that you look at the 5820 data sheet and see what options there are for transceivers.  I don't know if there are and bi-directional transceivers on the list.  What I'm hearing is that it is unlikely.

 

I wouldn't necessarily depend on IRIS... I would double check with the data sheet.

 

David

GKF
Visitor

Re: Problem with Bi Directional Optics

Hi David

 

Thanks for your response.

 

HP bought 3COM 4 years ago. I am not buying the whole EEPROM and vendor code excuse. All our optics work fine in Cisco switches... this is more a business issue than a techical one. HP need to wake up and get this sorted. This is getting embarrasing and makes a joke of the whole Converged infrastructure story.

 

Simple question. What Comware optic can I pair with a J9142B? JD098B? Will this work?

 

Assume SMF 9 micron under 10km

 

Thanks

 

George

GKF
Visitor

Re: Problem with Bi Directional Optics

A single strand on 9 Micron single mode fibre? LX and LH need 2 Strands of fibre.

VoIP-Buddy
HPE Pro

Re: Problem with Bi Directional Optics

Hi!

 

I understand that.  I took the ride and am happy to be here.

 

Ok, so what the customer has is a JC106A, right?  That is a HP 5820-14XG-SFP+ Switch with 2 Slots.  Is that the correct switch?

 

These are the only choices you have for 1g Transceivers on the 5820 according to the Quickspec...

 

Available  Transceivers:

 

HP X124 1G SFP LC LH40 1310nm Transceiver  JD061A
HP X120 1G SFP LC LH40 1550nm Transceiver  JD062A
HP X125 1G SFP LC LH70 Transceiver                    JD063B     
HP X120 1G SFP LC SX Transceiver                         JD118B
HP X120 1G SFP LC LX Transceiver                         JD119B

 I don't see any mention of Bi-directional support on any of them.  BX transceivers with use wavelengths1490nm/1310nm.  There doesn't seem to be a 1490nm in the bunch.

 

I am sorry that you do not believe my explanation about EEPROM specific coding.  That is a standard practice in the industry that is supported by the SFP MSA specification.  Please understand that you are dealing with products from two different product lines.  That is just the way it is. 

 

You are trying to use an optical arrangement that the 5820 does not support at this time.  If you had two strands of fiber there would be more options available to you as evidenced by the list above.  I don't understand how they could install just a single strand of fiber.  I have never heard of this before.

 

If you would like to pursue this further, the only option would be to work with your HP Sales Representative to send a Feature Request for BX optical support on the 5820 family switches.

 

I agree that it would be nice to have a single set of supported transceivers for both product lines.  I am not aware of a move in that direction but I wouldn't rule it out either.

 

David

 

VoIP-Buddy
HPE Pro

Re: Problem with Bi Directional Optics

Your previous comment "The customer only has a single strand of fibre, so using LX or LH is not an option." led me to believe that the customer only installed a single fiber strand.

 

David

GKF
Visitor

Re: Problem with Bi Directional Optics

Thanks David.

 

All the marketing talks about Simple, Open, Agile .....etc, and yet, as you pointed out, we have 2 product lines with different accessories and different CLI's (although it looks like some basic stuff has been done around that). I have got to the stage where when I work with a customer I try to do either Provision or Comware, but not both. If i do have to mix them, then I normally use Procurve optics as these will normally work in Comware switches and Provision Switches, but the Provision switches lock out the Comware optics. Not a good look.

 

On the Fibre front, single strand last mile is becoming more common, and everyone is moving to SMF. Our Telco's are rolling out fibre to the door at the moment with business area's being the first cabs off the rank. This is all single strand. in addition to that, a lot of dark fibre being leased is single strand. 

 

5500 and 5820's are key goto switches in our market for small cores, and demand for 1G  and 10G bi-di is growing. Hope our 10G Bi Di optics are going to launch soon. 

 

Thanks for the help

 

Cheers

 

G

 

Apachez-
Trusted Contributor

Re: Problem with Bi Directional Optics

Im currently using this BiDi (BX) optic in a A5820-24XG-SFP+ Switch (JC102A):

 

SWELASER
SWL SFP10G-BX-40K-37
10GBASE 40km DDM CE
Tx: 1330 Rx: 1270 H3C

 

The other side must (for obvious reasons :-) have the opposite setup that is:

 

Tx: 1270 Rx: 1330 H3C

 

It seems that HP doesnt offer any 10G BiDi (BX) interfaces themselfs (http://h17007.www1.hp.com/us/en/networking/products/accessories/index.aspx#transceivers) so you are basically forced to use 3rd party optics so make sure you have a warranty (from the optics vendor) so you can replace the optics in case HP goes the same nasty road as Cisco and start to block optics which isnt overprized. Also when you plan to update the firmware - test it first on one device to make sure HP didnt sneak out any blocking code in the "update".