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Re: Understanding DevOps vs NoOps

Gene Kim

Raf, I I appreciate your efforts to poke where there's a lot of contention -- it's forcing the DevOps movement to better define the terms we use, the values and principles that underpin the movement, as well as the processes, procedures, daily work and improvement of the daily work that make it all happen.

 

We had a DevOps/Kanban meetup last week, where we had some of the leading thinkers in the space (check out the attendee list and some great pictures) talking about DevOps, how to integrate techniques like kanban, and even NoOps.  It was a remarkable meeting

 

John Willis (@botchagalupe) just wrote a blog post on why some of these questions are difficult for the DevOps community.  I suspect this will be the first of many as we all try to crystalilize definitions that the entire community agrees upon.

 

Keep up the great work!

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Gene Kim

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Genefa Murphy

I think you are raising some good points here….the customers I have spoken to about Dev Ops and No Ops all recognize the unique value that the different players in the application lifecycle bring to the table. No Ops and Dev Ops and Agile before it all made us think about some fundamentals of efficiency within our orgs, namely the value of communication, collaboration and as you mention the tremendous value that automation can offer.

 

The other thing we have to remember is just because something is the “Word of the Day” it doesn’t mean we have to go and run out and adopt it hook, line and sinker, instead we would be better served to look at No Ops, understand what it really means and then apply it where applicable in our processes, practices and organizations. There is no one size fits all here. Just remember, if someone was to say jump of a cliff, would you?.....

Roy Lyons

In our organization, we recently went through a re-org that seems to mirror this attitude of breaking down silos and improving efficiency.  It is still brand new, so I can't comment on how well it works yet -- but I can say that it does address one of the largest issues facing IT today - COMMUNICATION.

 

The reality is that to achieve government compliance (at least in financial institutions), some separations of church and state (development vs quality assurance vs operations) need to be maintained.  This means that the expertise still needs to be "siloed" with certain individuals.  The reality is, therefore, that the testing and deployment is not really transferred to developers -- but the responsibility and accountability DOES transfer to the development organization as a whole.  This removes finger pointing and delay.

 

Rafal and I have loosely discussed some of the stronger security measures we have implemented regarding our intellectual property.  He playfully refers to them as draconian, however they really shine in this type of situation.  Since we cannot generalize a security model based simply on the group that they are in, we need to maintain a finer-grained control per-person.  I think the way to make that work is to automate the approval process as much as possible and try to implement the change in such a way that it can appear to be black box and transparent.  

 

As a whole, I am currently in approval of this approach.  Breaking down accountability and reporting walls to increase productivity, efficiency, and communication is a +1 in my book.  Just be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water!

Gene Kim

Raf, I I appreciate your efforts to poke where there's a lot of contention -- it's forcing the DevOps movement to better define the terms we use, the values and principles that underpin the movement, as well as the processes, procedures, daily work and improvement of the daily work that make it all happen.

 

We had a DevOps/Kanban meetup last week, where we had some of the leading thinkers in the space (check out the attendee list and some great pictures) talking about DevOps, how to integrate techniques like kanban, and even NoOps.  It was a remarkable meeting

 

John Willis (@botchagalupe) just wrote a blog post on why some of these questions are difficult for the DevOps community.  I suspect this will be the first of many as we all try to crystalilize definitions that the entire community agrees upon.

 

Keep up the great work!

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