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12H Autoraid alternative?

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W.C. Epperson
Trusted Contributor

12H Autoraid alternative?

Just discovered I can't buy another refurb rp5450 with A3700A AutoRAID Model 12H, at least not with HP support (none available from FRD). HP hasn't been able to tell me a functional alternative yet. Anyone who can offer recommendations, experience, etc., with any other internal AutoRAID for a L2000/rp5450?
"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence, my friends call it." --Poe
12 REPLIES
Vincent Fleming
Honored Contributor

Re: 12H Autoraid alternative?

The HP Virtual Array (VA7100, VA7110, VA7400 and VA7410) is the replacement product for the 12H. All have AutoRAID.

Good luck,

Vince
No matter where you go, there you are.
W.C. Epperson
Trusted Contributor

Re: 12H Autoraid alternative?

Thanks, Vince. But no ARMServer-based replacement for the 12H? We've finally gotten used to the 12H quirks and using arraydsp, etc., with a half-dozen or so 12H-based L2000s in operation.
"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence, my friends call it." --Poe
Brian M Rawlings
Honored Contributor
Solution

Re: 12H Autoraid alternative?

Actually, while the venerable 12H has been widely used on the L-class & RP54xx, any FWD SCSI array is a serious drag on a PCI-capable 9000 box. You will find that HP running out of these things is a blessing in disguise.

As Vince says, go with the VA7100 for the most cost-effective alternative, but I'd recommend the VA7410 instead. They share a lot of features, but the VA7410 is faster and more expandable.

All you'll need will be a pair of FC cards and LC/LC FC cables to direct-connect the VA7410 to your L2000/RP5470. The VA arrays use AutoRAID features and are easy to administer, with all the benefits and drawbacks that the 12H has provided you over the years. There'll be some learning curve, of course, management is a little different (easier, actually).

The VA arrays will give you much better (like, 4x-10x) performance over the old 12H. For a single direct-attached server, it should be plenty speedy. For massive I/O or for several boxes to share the array, however, I'd look at the EMC CX600, which is the current speed king (this month).

Later... --bmr
We must indeed all hang together, or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately. (Benjamin Franklin)
Vincent Fleming
Honored Contributor

Re: 12H Autoraid alternative?

There are equivelent ARM commands for the VA, so your administration is pretty similar.

If you really want 12H's, I can only suggest looking into the used equipment market.

Brian: nice plug for EMC. Spoken like a real EMC presales guy. ;-}
No matter where you go, there you are.
W.C. Epperson
Trusted Contributor

Re: 12H Autoraid alternative?

Thanks for the roadmap-in-a-nutshell, Brian. It's good to know that the 74xx is at least 4x as fast as the 12H. It's about 4x the $ I've been paying for 12H's.

Never been shy about slower but stable products. Just moved my last G-class into surplus room. Still have a couple of E-classes up and running.
"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence, my friends call it." --Poe
Brian M Rawlings
Honored Contributor

Re: 12H Autoraid alternative?

I have several customers who still have running G- and E-class units. Not on maintenance, which would be obscene by now, but they still run. I generally bow in their direction as I walk by, since one should be respectful to one's elders...

But in truth, I consider a box stable after it's been out for a couple of years with few glitches, and if the glitches have been corrected. The VA arrays have been out for over 3 years now, and qualify for me as "stable". Hope you like them.

I was a little surprised when HP came out with the VA7110, the enhanced version of the original VA7400. I suspect it is now the value leader, if you're looking for the "cheapest bestest", it is probably your new best friend.

Regards, --bmr
We must indeed all hang together, or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately. (Benjamin Franklin)
W.C. Epperson
Trusted Contributor

Re: 12H Autoraid alternative?

Full hw/sw 8x5xNBD support on my remaining E-classes runs about $134/mo. Really not bad considering the age. Of course, you may consider paying ANYTHING for support on a 64Mhz box to be obscene. ;)
"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence, my friends call it." --Poe
Vincent Fleming
Honored Contributor

Re: 12H Autoraid alternative?

Just the opposite, actually; You're asking support to stock parts (which are no longer manufactured) and train personnel (as experienced people retire, someone has to be trained to maintain your box), and all that for a measly $134/mo...

Sounds like a real bargin to me!

Vince
No matter where you go, there you are.
Tony Bacon
Frequent Advisor

Re: 12H Autoraid alternative?

The VA Arrays are on the Refurb market. The disk drives themselves are as affordable as the 12H Drives, atleast they are here. The actual array however is going to be a little higher. I think the performance gain will be justifiable however.

Tony Bacon
North American Systems
tbacon@nasi.com
W.C. Epperson
Trusted Contributor

Re: 12H Autoraid alternative?

Vince,

Just before the remark with the smiley face after it, I said:
"Really not bad considering the age". I understand what goes into support pricing after 20 years as an HP support customer--have an HP3000 T-Delta-2 DUS tape hanging on my wall as a conversation piece.

So, yeah, it is a bargain. What's obscene is that I still NEED support for the little bugger.
"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence, my friends call it." --Poe
Vincent Fleming
Honored Contributor

Re: 12H Autoraid alternative?

W.C.;

I meant no offense - I was just taken by how cheap it is! I thought for sure it would be much higher than that. I would think that our cost of maintaining that box is more than $134/mo.

Anyway... just to start a conversation...

Why do you say you need maintenance? You are free to maintain it yourself, I guess. Or upgrade to something newer, so it's under warranty. (a workstation is probably faster!)

Is it a legacy Application that forces you to maintain those older models?

Cheers from the winter wonderland of the northeast US,

Vince
No matter where you go, there you are.
W.C. Epperson
Trusted Contributor

Re: 12H Autoraid alternative?

Vince,

Between weather and other contingencies, I just now noticed your extension of this thread (I'm in the South, and have had difficulty getting our AWD sedans out of the driveway lately, etc).

I still have the two E-class machines supporting development and production environments for old Oracle SQLForms applications running in text mode. We carry support on them because that's my major justification for a proprietary box/OS like the 9000/hp-ux: integrated hardware software support. In 20 years or so of managing systems, I've learned that when I have the same vendor on the hook for both hardware and software support, that vendor is accountable as the last line of support. When (as with SCO, Linux solutions, BSD, etc) there's one OS support vendor and another hardware support vendor, I'm the last line of support because the other two point fingers at each other (and sometimes at others as well).

BTW, I found a vendor who could bid the 12H configuration with HP installation and support. Bought it.
"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence, my friends call it." --Poe