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EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

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Matt Szary
Advisor

EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

I'm setting up a new production environment for my company with a 4-node ServiceGuard cluster on 2xN and 2xL with the possibility of adding another N at a future point. Basically we have the architecture determined except for the storage part. We'll be running applications with Progress and Oracle backends. We'll need at least 4TB capacity in the frame. The options I've been looking at are an EMC 8430 frame, an HP XP-series frame, an HP VA-7100 frame or a NetApp Filer.
Each of them (besides the netapp) would be connected via FC, with the NetApp being Gigabit.

I realize this is somewhat comparing apples to oranges, but if someone has experience with throughput, clustering, reliability, management, and overall performance between these, I'd be interested to hear your input. I've worked with EMC in the past and am leaning towards EMC, but the HP offerings seem decent and I havent worked with a NetApp filer (or any NAS) really before, but the idea intruiges me. The storage may need to attach NT servers to at a later point.

I'd appreciate anyone's input and experiences.
Thanks.
11 REPLIES
Eric Sorensen_1
Honored Contributor

Re: EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

Hello Matt,

You might find this previous discussion interesting:

http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,1150,0x0367dfe5920fd5118fef0090279cd0f9,00.html

A problem well defined is half solved.
Duncan Edmonstone
Honored Contributor

Re: EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

If the NetApp solution is based around NFS/SAMBA, I'd be very carefull. Oracle won't (or at least didn't last time I asked) support a database with datafiles on NFS file systems, as NFS doesn't support non-deferred writes.

HTH

Duncan
Bill McNAMARA_1
Honored Contributor

Re: EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

go for the XP or the EMC. The XP comes in a 48 disk fibre config that is a good entry into the XP line... although not scalable beyond 48.

The XP is more mature than the VA so I'd certainly choose that.

Later,
Bill
It works for me (tm)
Matt Szary
Advisor

Re: EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

Apparently, NetApp says that their Filers are approved by Oracle and Progress for running their databases over.
Paul R. Dittrich
Esteemed Contributor

Re: EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

Last time I did a detailed comparison ('99) EMC still had a single point of failure (a single copy of the microcode) where the XP256 array had none. That was the deciding factor for us.

HTH,
Paul
Vincent Fleming
Honored Contributor
Solution

Re: EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

I would run away from the NetApp with all my might. Yes, it's "certified" with Oracle, but if you ask anyone at Oracle if they would actually use one, they would laugh.

NAS is really, really, really slow for databases. I am absolutely certain that you would be extremely unhappy with the performance of a NetApp filer (or *any* NAS box, including HP's) with Oracle.

Now, for direct-attached or SAN storage, I'd recommend the XP or EMC, since you seem to have the money for it. The VA series is a great little box at a great little price, but it just isn't in the same class as XPs and EMCs.

As for the XP and EMC, if you want the latest technology, get the XP; if you're happy with paying more for older technology, buy an EMC. (EMC hasn't updated their technology in over 4 years!) The XP is Fibre thru-and-thru, but the EMC still uses SCSI drives!

Anyway, They both meet your needs, from the sounds of it.

Good luck
No matter where you go, there you are.
Matt Brookes
Occasional Visitor

Re: EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

Yes!

Not only are NetApp systems certified and supported for Oracle [ http://www.netapp.com/partners/oracle/oscp.html ]
(and Sybase & DB2 and Ingress and so on), Oracle use them themselves to run thier business: [ http://www.netapp.com/news/press/2000/news_rel_20001206.html ]

Yes they're as fast as local disk, possibly faster in certain cicumstances.
Here's what Oracle say: [ http://www.netapp.com/partners/oracle/quotes.html ]

In addition, storing data on Filers offers many other advantages, just for example the ability to take multiple instant online copies of the database (Snapshots) and restore to a previous state in seconds, online filesystem expansion and so on.

From a business perspective, not only is the capital cost typically lower, but the three year TCO is typically 75% less than alternative solutions: [ http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/ftp/3102.pdf ]

It's well worth a look!

Matt.

Krishna Prasad
Trusted Contributor

Re: EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

Just my two sense....

I would go with the EMC for a database.

Also, on the comment the EMC is older then the XP256. I would have to ask then why did HP go to EMC first, and ask if they could put the HP logo on EMC machines. EMC said "NO", so HP went to company number two to get a machine.

So, hence the XP256 is HP's second choice.



Positive Results requires Positive Thinking
Chuck Ciesinski
Honored Contributor

Re: EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

Matt,

Although I am very late in posting an answer, I'd like to recommend you post decision and finding to the group here.
Additionally, I'd like to recommend you post the findings to the listserver
emc@interex.org. That list is
made up of EMC customers, EMC and HP engineers, and a number of Interex members.

Chuck Ciesinski
"Show me the $$$$$"
Matt Szary
Advisor

Re: EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

Since the origional posting, the situation changed somewhat.
The storage debate changed to EMC's FC 4700 vs HP's VA7400 vs. a Netapp Filer F840, mostly based on cost.
Netapp was ruled out due to their not being able to certify their device with our version of Progress.
The EMC was eventually decided against due to MC/SG certification/support conflicts with HP. I think the EMC solution is comparable, but technically superior to the VA 7400, but the decision was made above my head.
So in the end, we're going with the VA 7400 from HP. I anticipate it being able to handle anything we'll be throwing at it, with all the redundancy, expandability and reliability we need.
Chuck Ciesinski
Honored Contributor

Re: EMC vs XP vs NetApp?

Matt,

Was the MC/SG certification issue a political or technical issue? We use EMC frames and run 3 MC/SG clusters within the twin 3830 frames. We have not had any problems or issues from either HP or EMC with our hardware/software configurations.

Chuck Ciesinski
"Show me the $$$$$"