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тАО02-28-2006 05:43 AM
тАО02-28-2006 05:43 AM
We are currently re-re-designing the Storage Layout on our EVA5000 and EVA4000 for our new VMWare ESX Servers.
The Problem:
In the VMWare world the storage Layouts seem to be based allways on a big LUN which holds many Guest Hosts as VMFS Files.
In the EVA world (together with Tru64) we do many LUNs for every host.
The VMWare approach (few LUNs) corresponds with traditional SANs (not EVA).
The EVA approach (many LUNs) gives more flexibility on the storage side. We also expect better performance.
Are there any hard facts for one of the two approaches?
Experiences?
Opinions?
thx & rgds Stiwi
Solved! Go to Solution.
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тАО02-28-2006 06:02 AM
тАО02-28-2006 06:02 AM
Re: VMWare storage Layout on EVA
The "using many LUNs" thought really comes from high-end Unix systems like HP-UX. By default, the system has a rather short SCSI command queue depth per LUN, so a workaround is to use many LUNs and stripe them on the OS layer.
The EVA does not really care - you can create virtual disks ranging from 1 GByte up to 2 TByte (don't present any VDs larger than 1 TByte during ESX installation).
There _might_ be a problem with too many LUNs on ESX during a failover, I have heard. I have not looked at it into detail, yet, but it seemed like the failover was processed by one multipath device at a time. This can lead to VM crashes due to SCSI timeouts.
You also need to take into account that VMware ESX server V2 has a 128 LUN limit and *each* path to a virtual disk counts against that limit, because it represents a SCSI LUN.
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тАО02-28-2006 06:41 AM
тАО02-28-2006 06:41 AM
Re: VMWare storage Layout on EVA
My "many LUNs" approach is based on Tru64 experience. I do a LUN for what ever I need (but theres no need for striping).
So my original setup was like this:
VMWare Guest Server:
WinFilesrv1 - OS-LUN = LUN11 = 20GB (+CA)
WinFilesrv1 - Data-LUN = LUN12 = 200GB (+CA)
WinFilesrv1 - Pagefile-LUN= LUN13 = 2GB (noCA!)
I just separate OS and data (always done like this!?) and put the swap file on a separat not replicatetd LUN for performance.
WinFilesrv2 - OS-LUN = LUN11 = 22GB (noCA!)
WinFilesrv2 - Data-LUN = LUN12 = 100GB (noCA!)
Here I just separt OS and data. (no need for CA at all)
Generally a separate LUN for whatever you need and every LUN highly customized.
But if you tell me that I have only 128/4 = 32 LUNs our design has already more LUNs. And possible failover problems are also a strong argument against.
My next approach:
LUN20 = 1000GB with CA EVA5000 > EVA4000
LUN21 = 1000GB with CA EVA4000 > EVA5000
LUN22 = 500GB EVA5000 no CA
LUN23 = 500GB EVA4000 no CA
1 VMFS/LUN
Then I put the VMWare guest files into the apropriate LUN:
WinFilesrv1 - OS > LUN20
WinFilesrv1 - Data > LUN20
WinFilesrv1 - Pagefile > LUN22
This approach is somewhere in between many-many and ONE single LUN.
Any thoughts on this?
thx & rgds Stiwi
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тАО02-28-2006 08:12 AM
тАО02-28-2006 08:12 AM
Re: VMWare storage Layout on EVA
So my original setup was like this:
VMWare Guest Server:
WinFilesrv1 - OS-LUN = LUN11 = 20GB (+CA)
WinFilesrv1 - Data-LUN = LUN12 = 200GB (+CA)
WinFilesrv1 - Pagefile-LUN= LUN13 = 2GB (noCA!)
I just separate OS and data (always done like this!?) and put the swap file on a separat not replicatetd LUN for performance.
WinFilesrv2 - OS-LUN = LUN14 = 22GB (noCA)
WinFilesrv2 - Data-LUN = LUN15 = 100GB (noCA)
Here I just separt OS and data. (no need for CA at all)
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тАО02-28-2006 06:34 PM
тАО02-28-2006 06:34 PM
Re: VMWare storage Layout on EVA
take your average virtual machine disk size by ten and thats it. VMware states that you shouldnt put more than 10 VM's on one Lun.
In our enviroment we have an average size of 20GB (System + Data) per VM, that make 200GB Luns.
Max
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тАО02-28-2006 07:05 PM
тАО02-28-2006 07:05 PM
Re: VMWare storage Layout on EVA
I know this.
But does it make sense? Im loosing all the great benefits EVA brought to us.
Im used to decide on every LUN what the needs are.
On one LUN you need high Perf > FC DG
On another you need "cheap" space > FATA DG
On another you CA > activate it.
On another you BC > activate it.
I think the base Problems are the "V"s in EVA and VMWare. they are somehow contradictory.
What I try to find out: I have a strong feeling that the VMWare approach ONE big LUN is based on none EVA storage.
Couldnt we do better with an EVA?
thx & rgds Stiwi
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тАО03-02-2006 12:38 AM
тАО03-02-2006 12:38 AM
Re: VMWare storage Layout on EVA
We use (for example across 1 farm of 3 hosts) multiple 300GB LUNS.
Currently we have 4 300GB luns and a smaller 20GB lun for the templates/ backup transition stuff.
Have a scan through the vmware communication for some of my posts, or do a search on LUN/ EVA for some excellent examples and data sheets.
http://www.vmware.com/community/index.jspa
Then click in to the ESX Server Strategy and Planning forum.
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тАО03-02-2006 12:39 AM
тАО03-02-2006 12:39 AM
Re: VMWare storage Layout on EVA
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тАО03-02-2006 02:33 AM
тАО03-02-2006 02:33 AM
Re: VMWare storage Layout on EVA
Thank you for your link to the VM Forum. Ive read some interessting posts (General VMWare-SAN posts).
I dont get any further with this:
"do a search on LUN/ EVA for some excellent examples and data sheets."
This sounds very interesting but no luck yet finding anything.
Could you give me a pointer?
thx & rgds Stiwi
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тАО03-02-2006 04:33 AM
тАО03-02-2006 04:33 AM
SolutionLike I said and you certainly know: You can easily choose the size of a virtual disk right down to 1 GigaByte granularity. That is not really necessary for a VMFS, because you most likely would keep some free space, e.g. for REDO services, but it is sure handy if you are using RDMs.
It does not matter how large a virtual disk is - the data is always spread over all disks in a disk group. It works the same way for a 100 GByte VMFS, a 1 GByte VMDK or a 1 GByte RDM.
Using a larger VMFS and leaving some free space allows you to roll out new VMDKs rather fast. Sometimes, when reading some threads about problems to recognize a new LUN (not necessarily from an EVA) I really have to shake my head:
do the server and the storage people not work _together_ ?
I think you agree that the EVA is easy to handle through CV-EVA, but you will use it less when you are using large VMFSes. In that case you will more often use VMware ESX server included tools like the MUI or VMKFSTOOLS, no matter what the underlying storage array is.
Interesting, isn't it? This is a bit similar to the argument from vendors of in-band storage virtualization appliances.
Indeed VMware ESX server can move some storage management responsibilities from the "SAN administrator" to the "ESX/server administrator", but both _must_ work together.
There are still some features the EVA has, which are not available in ESX:
- highly redundant storage
-- (not available with local disks)
- CA
- decoupling of the server from "its" storage
-- even better: multiple servers can share the storage