Changing the "return path" on sending email

[Steven Schweda]

> I edited the H?P? entry, just to see if it
> would work/break/whatever.

And this change looked like what, exactly?
And then you did what, exactly?

> No effect.

When you did what, exactly?

> I'm open to ideas.

I'm open to a clear description of what
you're doing.

If a sendmail daemon is running, then I
wouldn't expect it to notice a change in its
configuration file until it got whacked
(gently or roughly).

> > You did not say if you are using mailx.
>
> Did you ever say exactly which program you
> were using?

Still wondering...

> [...] I assume that [...]

Allowing me to assume anything makes this
venture less likely to succeed.

If I were psychic _and_ a sendmail expert,
then we might have a better chance at
progress. But I'm neither, so you may need
to help some.

[TheJuiceman]

> I edited the H?P? entry, just to see if it
> would work/break/whatever.

> No effect.

>>When you did what, exactly?

In place of the variable I put in a hard coded address. After restarted sendmail, it did not break it but did not effect how mail was being handled either.

> I'm open to ideas.

>>I'm open to a clear description of what
you're doing.

>>If a sendmail daemon is running, then I
wouldn't expect it to notice a change in its
configuration file until it got whacked
(gently or roughly).

With the change, sendmail was restarted. I am restarting sendmail with each modification made.

> > You did not say if you are using mailx.
>
> Did you ever say exactly which program you
> were using?

>>>Still wondering...

We are typically using sendmail to send out mail. Mailx is used as well....sometimes even Rmail. It does not matter the mechanism, the result is the same. I can force the "From" and even a "Return-Path" but it still returns error messages to the AUTH user set up to the relay (which is on a Groupwise mail server). For example...say the AUTH user is "auth-user". I send out a message to "you@there.com" from "me@here.com". If the message fails to deliver for some reason, the bounce back is going to "auth-user@here.com" instead of the originator "me@here.com". This is happening if I use sendmail, rmail, elm, mailx, whatever. This happens even if I set the return path (I can even see the return path in the header on successful emails to be what I want (ie "me@here.com"), but the error messages for failed messages still go to the AUTH user (ie "auth-user@here.com")). I need a way to set the error path so that it will return to the originator, not the AUTH user.

I don't know how else to say this.

Thank you for your help. I hope this explains it better.

[Rita C Workman]

I didn't read all the responses, but if I understand you:

UNIX-userid is not a real email address.

OK...have you tried this old trick:

On UNIX box
cd /etc/mail
vi userdb (a file you are creating)
Add the following 2 lines for each user
rworkman:mailname Rita Workman
r_workman@mydomain.com:maildrop rworkman

My HPUX login=rworkman, my real life email is viewed to be r_workman@mydomain.com.

OK....

Now when your done putting in the 2 lines for each user, then save the file.
Run this:

makemap btree /etc/mail/userdb.db < /etc/mail/userdb

Go into your /etc/mail/sendmail.cf file and take OUT the "#" on this line:
UserDatabaseSpec=/etc/mail/userdb.db

Stop and then restart sendmail
/sbin/init.d/sendmail stop
/sbin/init.d/sendmail start


It's how we have messages sent to 'root' rerouted to come to my regular Outlook mail...

Kindest regards,
Rita

[Rita C Workman]

We also found it handy to have all the batch jobs run by ApplA batch-processing-id sent to this person and all the batch jobs run by ApplB batch-processing-id to that person...

and so on.

We don't set up for 'every' user, just specific ones. Once we did a master userdb file on one box, copied it to the rest and ran the makemap command;start/stop sendmail, and done.

/rcw

[TheJuiceman]

Hi Rita,

Thank you, also, for your help. The userdb option works for internal emails (those going to our domain) but not to outside addresses.

If a message originates on our system is destined to an address ON our domain, but fails to send, the bounce-back goes to the userdb entry.

If a message originates on our system is destined to an address OUTSIDE our domain, but fails to send, the bounce-back still goes to the AUTH user address.

Any thoughts? Thanks

[Rita C Workman]

hmmm...would likely require editing things to change the header information of the email.

But - let me play with it. May not be able to figure something out, but it's always fun to try.

Give a couple days maybe....

Thanks,
Rita

[Rita C Workman]

OK...here's what I just tried.

Took UNIX account 'fnsw'. Created the flip to change the From address, so that all mail on the UNIX box for 'fnsw' would go to my hotmail.com account (i.e. outside mail).

Logged in as 'fnsw' on UNIX box.
Sent email to my work internal mail, rita.workman@workdomain.com from the UNIX box via command line using elm.

[Our UNIX boxes will send mail via smtprelay through Exchange].

Got my email from fnsw internally to my internal work email (rita.workman@workdomain.com).
It shows the From as @hotmail.com.
..so far so good...

So, from my internal account, I did a reply and it now went to my hotmail.com account.

OK...now let's do a return mail on this same mail again so from hotmail I'm just doing a reply to mail. Still the same email, not putting in address, just replying.

Got it....

Looks like it went inside & outside to me, back and forth just fine.

And it all started with the switch of address on userdb changing the From address from fnsw.server.local to .hotmail.com
-------------------------------------------
Now since there is no public address out there as fnsw.workdomain.com or fnsw.server.local, the outside world could not send to fnsw! That's an obvious and as it should be.
But for any mail where it orignites on the UNIX box and you change the From address you should be able to do this - in most cases!.

I would NOT attempt to do this with certain accounts, like root or oracle or such. Because there are parts of the mail header record that doing a From address change like this can NOT change the actual system 'from' name. In other words, 'root' would still show up in the header record somewhere. And spam filters can see it. It will disregard most traces of strange names...but 'root' is one that even partial suppression using this userdb option, spam filters will react and could create issues with external mail, blacklisting your domain.

Of course all of this depends if I went in the right direction of what your trying to do.

Kindest regards and thanks for giving me someting to play around with...

Rita

[TheJuiceman]

Hi Rita,

Thanks for taking the time to play with my problem.

Let me clarify by saying the emails going out WORK!!! They deliver as they should, if the address is right, the recipient server is not down, etc.

By setting the return path, a reply to a successfully sent message will return to the proper originator, as hoped.

The problem occurs when there is a sending error. The bounce-back message is the problem. If a message is sent to a bogus address outside of our domain, the bounce-back message stating the error is going to the AUTH user and not the originator. This only seems to be happening if a message is sent to a bogus address outside our domain. Sending to a bogus address inside the domain will cause the bounce-back message to go to the userdb address (or the set return path address if userdb isn't used).

How can I get the error messages that are sent outside our domain to bounce-back to the originator's address and not the authenicated user's address?

Could I ask what happens when you send a message to a bogus address both inside and outside your domain?

Thanks again for your help.

[Rita C Workman]

Didn't want you to think I forgot about this...

Sent test emails to bogus address, but had missed that the setting on Timeout_queuereturn was still set to default of (5d) or 5 days. So I'm going to have to give it a couple more days to see if they come back - and to who.

According to sendmail.cf they should return to sender. What remains is to see if on the return, will acknowledge the settings in the userdb.db file and send it to my Exchange address or the loginid.

Will post back around Wednesday on this..

Regards,
Rita

[TheJuiceman]

I have not been able to get very far with this. Decided to scrap using a relay and use some scripting to handle errors. Thanks everyone for the help.