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sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

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skt_skt
Honored Contributor

sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

HP-UX 11.00
N4000

# sar -m 5 5

HP-UX eurleg1p B.11.00 A 9000/800 11/11/09

10:37:37 msg/s sema/s
10:37:42 1.00 1556.18
10:37:47 1.20 1433.80
10:37:52 0.80 1378.60
10:37:57 1.00 1641.20
10:38:02 1.20 2084.17

Average 1.04 1618.55

I have an which is ofetn going trhough performancer issue and my ssystem is below 50% used interms of CPU/MEM/Swap also the disk service time is good. I see a trend sema/a is very high (normal below 100) during problem window.

have you been though a similar sirtuation. is there a work around or a fix to increase performance to application
20 REPLIES
TTr
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

Semaphore activity is usually related to application activity. On the OS side you can control the number and size of semaphores. But if the application does not get what it needs it will error out.

Check the application recommendations and verify the semaphore settings in the kernel. If the semaphore size is too small the application may be opening too many of them. Adjusting the semaphore parameters may force the application to open fewer semaphores of larger size. There are other semaphore parameters in the kernel as well. Maybe the app has a bug maybe it is normal activity.

Use ipcs -a (ipcs -s) to monitor the semaphore usage and user/app ownership
skt_skt
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

I already have higher value semmns which controls the limit.(The number of System V semaphores configured for use is controlled by the kernel parameter SEMMNS.)
Under below list , not sure which one controls the "size"

# kmtune|grep -i sem
sema 1
semaem 16384
semmap (SEMMNI+2)
semmni 4096
semmns 16384
semmnu 1024
semmsl_override 2048
semume 64
semvmx 32767
TTr
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

Unless this secret application have any unusual recommendations for semaphore settings, the semaphore settings look ok.You need to verify with the application support if this is normal. Or check if there are any application settings or fixes/patches that may be addressing this issue? Even the 100sema/s under normal activity is kind of high. Unless this application is a large environment with amny different independent components.

Did you verify the semaphores and the owner with the "ipcs -s" command?
skt_skt
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

normal case is below , even though i said below 100.

08:23:34 msg/s sema/s
08:23:39 1.20 41.60
08:23:44 1.00 36.80
08:23:49 1.00 40.00
08:23:54 1.20 43.00
08:23:59 1.00 36.80

Average 1.08 39.64

I dont see a big list under "ipcs -s" even though almost 2000 sema/s. I see only around 50 lines in this o/p around problemwindow also.Not sure how t map them(is there a mapping?)


Here is the current one.

# ipcs -s
IPC status from /dev/kmem as of Thu Nov 12 08:31:05 2009
T ID KEY MODE OWNER GROUP
Semaphores:
s 0 0x411c0e87 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 1 0x4e0c0002 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 2 0x412000a3 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 3 0x01090522 --ra-r--r-- root root
s 4 0x61200615 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 5 0x73200615 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 6 0x70200615 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 7 0x69200615 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 8 0x75200615 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 9 0x63200615 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 10 0x64200615 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 11 0x66200615 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 12 0x6c200615 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 13 0x6d200615 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 14 0x6f200615 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 4014095 0x4453314d --ra------- root sys
s 860176 0x55535253 --ra-ra-ra- root sys
s 106513 0x00005653 --ra-ra-ra- root sys
s 18 0x410c073b --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 19 0xffffffff --ra-r--r-- root root
s 2076692 0xf7a3cbf8 --ra-r----- oracle dba
s 118805 0x0c2b04d6 --ra-r----- oracle dba
s 827414 0x368ba5f0 --ra-r----- oracle dba
s 16407 0xb4894a70 --ra-r----- oracle dba
s 2580504 0x00000000 --ra-ra-ra- camprd camprd
s 16409 0xfa88a96c --ra-r----- oracle dba
s 27 0x52200615 --ra-ra-ra- root root
s 12317 0x299dfc44 --ra-r----- oracle dba
s 1802270 0xa00bf0bc --ra-r----- oracle dba
s 16415 0x276f9ef4 --ra-r----- oracle dba
s 1327137 0xd9fd40e0 --ra-r----- oracle dba
s 704547 0x40d5868c --ra-r----- oracle dba
s 4164 0x00000000 --ra-ra-ra- proteus proteus
TTr
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

I looked at the man page for sar (-m option) and the "sema/s" column is not number of semaphores, it is rather "semaphore calls per second", that is system calls made to the OS to access the semaphores.

So the ipcs output is what really shows you the semaphores that exist.

Now, yes you have a busy application, and if it is distributed, with many different processes working on the same task, the samaphore call activity will be high.

If the server response is good, then there is probably nothing wrong. Otherwise you either consider adding more server power or see if the application can take any fine tuning and configuration changes.
skt_skt
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

see this one. So it match with what you said?( i did not catch "number of semaphore primitives called per second")
http://osr507doc.sco.com/en/PERFORM/view_IPC_act.html

If the sema/s column in the output from sar -m shows that the number of semaphore primitives called per second is high (for example, greater than 100), the application may not be using IPC efficiently. It is not possible to recommend a value here. What constitutes a high number of semaphore calls depends on the use to which the application puts them and the processing power of the system running the application
TTr
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

> ...is high (for example, greater than 100)

"High" is a relative term here. that document is from 2003. And it should be your application specialist, or your application vendor support to determine if the sema activity is normal or not.

If you have too many app processes running they could be continuously checking the semaphores to determine if they will take a specific action or not.

You need to look at this from the application side.
Michael Steele_2
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

Hi

I've review your settings and I don't see anything out of norm., but I don't see a total memory size which is needed for calculations.

I've reread the attachment and there's a possiblity that you have frequent small file calls that are using up all your semaphore metadata space.

Review both the JFS and semaphore doc I've attached, and also provide your memory, dbc_max_pct, and vx_bc_bufhwm values.

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Rita C Workman
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

You ask about performance, so I'm going to ask:

How much server memory on this box?

What are the setting for the following parms:

dbc_max%
dbc_min%
ninode
vx_ninode


Thanks,
Rita
skt_skt
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

Total VM : 973.4mb Sys Mem : 885.9mb User Mem: 5.75gb Phys Mem: 20.0gb
Active VM: 455.0mb Buf Cache: 2.00gb Free Mem: 11.4gb

dbc_max_pct 10
dbc_min_pct 5
ninode ((NPROC+16+24*MAXUSERS)+32+(2*NPTY))
vx_ninode 262144

08:11:35 text-sz ov proc-sz ov inod-sz ov file-sz ov
08:11:38 N/A N/A 409/8212 0 0/33860 0 4059/32778 0
08:11:41 N/A N/A 409/8212 0 0/33860 0 4059/32778 0
08:11:44 N/A N/A 408/8212 0 0/33860 0 4043/32778 0
Michael Steele_2
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

Hi

Well you only have one GB of memory. And more than likely its 100% utilized. Let's see the following

ipcs -ma
vmstat 5 5
sar -m 5 5
sar -u 5 5
sar -v 5 5
swapinfo -tam
grep Phy /var/log/syslog/syslog.log
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skt_skt
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

My earlier post cleary says 20Gb total and 11GB free. Are u mentioning the system memory usage??

Mar 10 07:04:01 hostname vmunix: Physical: 20971520 Kbytes, lockable: 18469592 Kbytes, available: 18800648 Kbytes

# ipcs -ma
IPC status from /dev/kmem as of Sat Nov 14 10:07:15 2009
T ID KEY MODE OWNER GROUP CREATOR CGROUP NATTCH SEGSZ CPID LPID ATIME DTIME CTIME
Shared Memory:
m 0 0x411c0e87 --rw-rw-rw- root root root root 0 348 2113 9278 3:07:09 3:07:09 7:05:06
m 1 0x4e0c0002 --rw-rw-rw- root root root root 1 31040 2113 9278 3:07:09 3:07:09 7:05:06
m 2 0x412000a3 --rw-rw-rw- root root root root 1 8192 2113 9278 3:07:09 3:07:09 7:05:06
m 14339 0x4d4e5251 --rw-r--r-- root sys root sys 2 330752 27095 27023 8:05:00 no-entry 16:09:33
m 11268 0x55315352 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 4096 27095 1405 6:39:22 6:40:33 16:09:33
m 16389 0x44525354 --rw-r--r-- root sys root sys 3 632832 27095 22134 6:02:10 6:02:10 16:09:33
m 11270 0x53494152 --rw-r--r-- root sys root sys 1 1024 27095 27095 16:09:33 no-entry 16:09:33
m 11271 0x00005643 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 1024 27111 27111 16:09:35 no-entry 16:09:35
m 11272 0x00005654 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 1024 27111 27111 16:09:35 no-entry 16:09:35
m 27657 0x0c6629c9 --rw-r----- root sys root sys 2 23863660 26285 22532 8:08:25 8:08:47 12:14:56
m 1034 0x06347849 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 77384 26285 26355 12:14:59 12:14:56 12:14:56
m 2059 0xffffffff --rw-r--rw- root root root root 0 22908 3682 3682 7:06:25 7:06:25 7:06:25
m 56332 0xcd8eaeac --rw-r----- oracle dba oracle dba 14 115318784 13952 19853 10:06:17 10:06:17 9:44:13
m 30733 0xb13ec75c --rw-r----- oracle dba oracle dba 13 144900096 2670 19905 10:06:24 10:06:24 5:15:42
m 27662 0x6cf89068 --rw-r----- oracle dba oracle dba 15 271319040 6028 19557 10:05:01 10:05:01 5:51:03
m 13327 0x59b075a8 --rw-r----- oracle dba oracle dba 13 120004608 5068 19961 10:06:31 10:06:32 7:07:47
m 5137 0x861326dc --rw-r----- oracle dba oracle dba 13 120004608 5812 20011 10:06:39 10:06:40 7:08:18
m 69650 0x00000000 --rw-r--r-- camprd camprd camprd camprd 1 2469888 14305 18674 10:01:00 10:01:18 1:37:38
m 1044 0x8be49cd8 --rw-r----- oracle dba oracle dba 12 128196608 6448 20059 10:06:46 10:06:46 7:08:55
m 9237 0x9fd1dc90 --rw-r----- oracle dba oracle dba 14 304054272 8876 20269 10:07:13 10:07:13 9:20:26
m 2070 0x8b8c4c00 --rw-r----- oracle dba oracle dba 15 123150336 6975 20111 10:06:53 10:06:53 7:09:23
m 1394711 0x412003ce --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26681 3847 19:57:48 no-entry 12:15:05
m 3096 0x08392408 --rw-r----- oracle dba oracle dba 12 824795136 4955 20162 10:06:59 10:06:59 8:22:31
m 6764569 0x4120044b --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26712 18883 10:03:14 no-entry 12:15:05
m 2074 0x732c04f0 --rw-r----- oracle dba oracle dba 18 439066624 14571 20217 10:07:07 10:07:07 8:05:36
m 4123 0x4120824c --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26725 18901 10:03:15 no-entry 12:15:06
m 4124 0x41200392 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26737 18925 10:03:16 no-entry 12:15:06
m 4125 0x41207a6b --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26757 5581 20:02:50 no-entry 12:15:06
m 4126 0x4120045a --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26763 18942 10:03:16 no-entry 12:15:07
m 4127 0x4120807e --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26778 18959 10:03:16 no-entry 12:15:07
m 4128 0x41200396 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26780 18975 10:03:17 no-entry 12:15:07
m 4129 0x41200400 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26781 18990 10:03:17 no-entry 12:15:08
m 4130 0x41200356 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26782 5658 20:02:51 no-entry 12:15:08
m 1059 0x4120768f --rw-rw-rw- root root root root 0 8785 7819 14371 19:43:09 no-entry 7:10:11
m 4132 0x41207300 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26784 26784 12:15:08 no-entry 12:15:08
m 4133 0x41207371 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26785 19009 10:03:17 no-entry 12:15:08
m 4134 0x412086d5 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26788 19024 10:03:17 no-entry 12:15:09
m 4135 0x4120061a --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26790 26790 12:15:09 no-entry 12:15:09
m 4136 0x41200650 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26791 26791 12:15:09 no-entry 12:15:09
m 4137 0x41205970 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26792 26792 12:15:10 no-entry 12:15:10
m 4138 0x41200532 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26797 26797 12:15:10 no-entry 12:15:10
m 4139 0x41207b29 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26800 26800 12:15:11 no-entry 12:15:11
m 4140 0x412006c8 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26801 26801 12:15:11 no-entry 12:15:11
m 4141 0x41200480 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26802 26802 12:15:11 no-entry 12:15:11
m 4142 0x412004d4 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26807 26807 12:15:12 no-entry 12:15:12
m 4143 0x41200693 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26808 26808 12:15:12 no-entry 12:15:12
m 4144 0x41203245 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26811 26811 12:15:12 no-entry 12:15:12
m 1073 0x41207875 --rw-rw-rw- root root root root 0 8785 7846 7846 7:10:15 no-entry 7:10:15
m 4146 0x41207512 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26814 26814 12:15:13 no-entry 12:15:13
m 4147 0x4120793f --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26820 26820 12:15:13 no-entry 12:15:13
m 4148 0x412087a0 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26821 26821 12:15:13 no-entry 12:15:13
m 4149 0x412059a5 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26822 4041 19:57:53 no-entry 12:15:14
m 4150 0x412059d9 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26829 19042 10:03:18 no-entry 12:15:14
m 4151 0x41208885 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26830 19057 10:03:18 no-entry 12:15:14
m 4152 0x412047bd --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26834 19071 10:03:18 no-entry 12:15:14
m 849977 0x41208135 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26845 5754 20:02:53 no-entry 12:15:14
m 4154 0x412059f0 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26850 19088 10:03:19 no-entry 12:15:15
m 4155 0x412080ce --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26873 19103 10:03:19 no-entry 12:15:15
m 4156 0x412047be --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26885 19121 10:03:19 no-entry 12:15:15
m 4157 0x412059df --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26891 19135 10:03:20 no-entry 12:15:15
m 4158 0x412003b5 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26893 5834 20:02:55 no-entry 12:15:15
m 4159 0x41207229 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26905 26905 12:15:16 no-entry 12:15:16
m 1088 0x412080dc --rw-rw-rw- root root root root 0 8785 8150 14753 19:43:13 no-entry 7:10:22
m 4161 0x41207991 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26908 19155 10:03:20 no-entry 12:15:16
m 4162 0x41208058 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26913 19169 10:03:20 no-entry 12:15:16
m 4163 0x4120823b --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26966 19029 10:03:18 no-entry 12:15:30
m 4164 0x41208574 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26967 26967 12:15:30 no-entry 12:15:30
m 4165 0x41208114 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26971 19175 10:03:20 no-entry 12:15:31
m 4166 0x412078a2 --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26973 18913 10:03:15 no-entry 12:15:31
m 4167 0x41207f2b --rw-rw-rw- root sys root sys 1 8785 26981 26981 12:15:31 no-entry 12:15:31
m 73 0x00000000 D-rw------- appmgrmb dba appmgrmb dba 11 2658308 8465 8465 7:10:37 no-entry 7:10:37
m 369 0x00000000 --rw-r--r-- proteus proteus root proteus 2 4571136 18408 20511 17:42:01 17:45:31 7:23:45


:/home/kumarts# vmstat 2 2
procs memory page faults cpu
r b w avm free re at pi po fr de sr in sy cs us sy id
0 0 0 107773 2978251 176 98 1 0 251 0 0 3880 12980 1414 8 3 89
0 0 0 107773 2977624 46 4 0 0 5 0 0 2525 4024 389 6 1 93
:/home/kumarts# sar -m 2 2

HP-UX B.11.00 A 9000/800 11/14/09

10:09:12 msg/s sema/s
10:09:14 1.00 32.34
10:09:16 1.00 40.00

Average 1.00 36.16
:/home/kumarts# sar -u 2 2

HP-UX hostname B.11.00 A 9000/800 11/14/09

10:09:25 %usr %sys %wio %idle
10:09:27 25 7 11 57
10:09:29 15 4 12 70

Average 20 5 11 63
:/home/kumarts# sar -v 2 2

HP-UX hostname B.11.00 A 9000/800 11/14/09

10:09:33 text-sz ov proc-sz ov inod-sz ov file-sz ov
10:09:35 N/A N/A 422/8212 0 0/33860 0 4154/32778 0
10:09:37 N/A N/A 416/8212 0 0/33860 0 4119/32778 0

:/home/kumarts# swapinfo -tam
Mb Mb Mb PCT START/ Mb
TYPE AVAIL USED FREE USED LIMIT RESERVE PRI NAME
dev 64 0 64 0% 0 - 1 /dev/vg00/lvol2
dev 9024 0 9024 0% 0 - 1 /dev/vg00/lvol9
dev 9024 0 9024 0% 0 - 1 /dev/vg01/lvol1
reserve - 4121 -4121
memory 16038 2523 13515 16%
total 34150 6644 27506 19% - 0 -
Michael Steele_2
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

Hi

a) 20 GB memory
b) You are using 2.4 GB of shared memory (Sum SEGSZ)
c) You have 11.3 GB of free memory (2978251 * 4096 * 1024**3 )
d) What is the oracle SGA size

su - orabwx
sqlplus /nolog
connect / as sysdba
show parameter sga / show sga

I'm having a hard time finding a problem.

Qustion: What is sar -d 5 5 (* disk bottleneck?)
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Michael Steele_2
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

c) You have 11.3 GB of free memory (2978251 * 4096 / 1024**3 )
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Michael Steele_2
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

e) swap is only 19%
f) no page outs
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skt_skt
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

This application uses the database on the same system. But its a progressive database not oracle one.

Also the disk service time are below 10(sar -d) most of the time. I have the performnace data colection set for 15 minute interval
Michael Steele_2
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

Hi

Can you attached the sar -d output
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skt_skt
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

Here is the sar o/p from the disks involved in those application file systems from the last problem window. Also i take the sar o/p only to get a trend not exact the service time becasue the o/p may be blended across metas.( I have a EMC Clariion)

-----------------------------
Wed Nov 11 08:20:47 MET 2009
Average c14t0d7 2.00 6.44 12 180 12.46 7.05
-----------------------------
Wed Nov 11 08:32:13 MET 2009
Average c14t0d7 24.06 3.52 283 13184 6.20 3.09
Average c12t2d6 2.90 0.50 8 2096 6.27 7.82
-----------------------------
Wed Nov 11 08:43:34 MET 2009
Average c14t0d7 1.95 30.51 31 487 19.92 3.62
Average c12t2d6 1.35 0.50 7 1791 5.47 4.16
Average c14t2d1 0.35 0.50 1 358 7.44 4.31
-----------------------------
Wed Nov 11 08:54:53 MET 2009
Average c14t0d7 7.19 2.11 44 685 6.92 4.75
Average c12t2d6 1.40 0.50 6 1893 4.90 4.54
Average c14t2d1 0.75 0.50 3 479 6.67 3.86
-----------------------------
Wed Nov 11 09:06:13 MET 2009
Average c14t0d7 11.99 5.65 35 537 10.27 7.92
Average c12t2d6 1.55 0.50 6 1740 6.05 4.24
Average c14t2d1 0.30 0.50 1 109 6.26 7.02
-----------------------------
Wed Nov 11 09:17:32 MET 2009
Average c14t0d7 17.35 8.58 97 1541 12.63 7.93
Average c14t2d1 0.05 0.50 0 0 1.85 13.54
-----------------------------
Wed Nov 11 09:28:54 MET 2009
Average c14t0d7 6.19 4.12 39 617 12.04 8.69
Average c14t2d1 1.55 0.50 4 320 4.59 5.21
-----------------------------
Wed Nov 11 09:40:13 MET 2009
Average c14t0d7 3.05 6.88 15 225 11.56 7.67
-----------------------------
Wed Nov 11 09:51:33 MET 2009
Average c14t0d7 2.70 6.93 19 298 7.66 5.84
-----------------------------
Wed Nov 11 10:02:52 MET 2009
Average c14t0d7 2.65 3.03 23 322 3.70 4.51
Average c14t2d1 0.10 0.50 0 1 3.77 7.94
-----------------------------
Wed Nov 11 10:14:12 MET 2009
Average c14t0d7 3.30 4.52 23 357 7.23 5.83
Average c14t2d1 0.85 0.50 4 316 4.75 2.89
-----------------------------
Wed Nov 11 10:25:31 MET 2009
Average c14t0d7 3.50 4.49 18 288 7.49 5.99
-----------------------------
Michael Steele_2
Honored Contributor
Solution

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

Hi

Please verify the last two columns are avwait and avserv. If so then you have a disk bottleneck on almost every disk and I've never seen that before.

Note: A disk bottleneck exists when avwait is greater than avserv
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Michael Steele_2
Honored Contributor

Re: sema/s is over 2000 and pefromance issue with application

Note: You need to assign 0 to 10 points for every response and close the thread when ready - Thanks
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