HPE 9000 and HPE e3000 Servers
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

How to compare two Systems

 
SOLVED
Go to solution
George Nikoloudis_1
Frequent Advisor

How to compare two Systems

Hi,

I was interested to have a measurement between the architecture of RP8400 and SD32. No matter of the actual number of Processors how it is able to describe the Backplane superiority of the SD32?

Thanks
George
12 REPLIES 12
Tim Sanko
Trusted Contributor

Re: How to compare two Systems

George,

An SD can scale to 64 processors. but the RP8400 can only go to 32 processors. but scalability aside, the N and K boxes have and RP's havew a similar bus. The V-Class and DOme have a similar Hyper-plane.

The number of pci slots/box is on the side of the dome. The crossbar bandwidth on the 32 is 16GB/s and max mem is 256 GB.

The 84XX has a 32 GB/s crossbar bandwidth and 17 GB/s aggregate I/O slot bandwidth (34 GB/s using SEU)

Basically the issue becomes scalability, and ram addressing. The 128GB soesn't appear to be a real limitation, but with vpars, you start dividing, and then you just start from a smaller max size pie. With the big SD you can end up with 512 GB RAM VPARS.

MAx thoeretical throughput is similar, but I believe that an RP isn't even a V-Class in real world application.

Here is my two cents.

Tim
George Nikoloudis_1
Frequent Advisor

Re: How to compare two Systems

What Do you mean isnt a V class?
Tim Sanko
Trusted Contributor

Re: How to compare two Systems

George,

I guess there is a SD128 that can scale to that level.

The RP I am familiar with is a 16 way at 750-800 MZ. I compare it to a 32 way v2600.

I am not familiar with the 32way RP8400, except in its brochure bragging. I have experience with SD64 and V-2600 16 and 32 way , and RP8400 16 way.

I only express my concern that there is only so much room for heat dissipation in an 8400, and I have seen less throughput in a SAN Fabric environment, compared to a fiber channel direct connect. on 8000 series Symmetrix.

If it is a production server, I reccommend direct fiber attached storage. (SAN FABRIC changes affecting my database is not a solution that I would prefer.

By the way, I have gone through HBA replacement on SAN attached storage. I hope to never go through it again.


Tim

Tim Sanko
Trusted Contributor

Re: How to compare two Systems

We have seen better performance on a V-2600 than on our RP. We also have seen better performance on an SD64 than an RP.

THE DOME HAS MUCH MORE MEMORY. The Dome and the V-Class are direct attatched to Symmetrix 8830 in Indianapolis.

The RP is SAN Storage to the same 8830. The v-Class is 550 HZ and the SD is 750 MZ. The RP is 650 MZ (I BELIEVE.)

Tim
George Nikoloudis_1
Frequent Advisor

Re: How to compare two Systems

My comparison is based on the below:
V Class is the today system where a Oracle DB is running.

I am trying to see why we should go to a SD solution instead of RP or to prefer the RP solution due to other resons

Is it possible to define the rp as a number crunching system ans SD as a IO system?

How can I justify this to my Manager? DO you have any resources?
Leif Halvarsson_2
Honored Contributor

Re: How to compare two Systems

Hi,
I suppose you need some benchmark with the rp8400 and the SD. Perhaps you can find something useful at http://www.tpc.org .

Tobias Hartlieb
Trusted Contributor

Re: How to compare two Systems

Hi George,

Superdome (SD32) has more maximum Memory, more maximum number of CPUs, more I/O capability, more Cells (i.e. more possibilities in hard partitioning).
However, when adding the additional SEU (Server Expansion Unit for RP8400), you can have some more PCI slots and 2 more Hardpartitions in RP8400.
Anyway, you could also update SD32 to SD64 at later times (2nd cabinet) to double processor, memory, and I/O capability...

It might be helpful to ask local HP sales for details...

Simply: The SD32 is just "bigger" than the rp8400...

Regards

Tobias



James Anker
Valued Contributor
Solution

Re: How to compare two Systems


George,

A question that I answer on many occasions for my customers (I'm an HP presales consultant).

It all depends on what your doing and what resilience you require. If your DB is Oracle 9i and can use RAC the RP8400 is WAY better because you can use two in a RAC Cluster, there are two reasons to do this, firstly

1) A Superdome has three single points of failure (loose any of these and the whole Dome will come down) - they are the system clock, the system backplane and the power monitor

2) 2 x RP8400's in a cluster under RAC are much more performant (13% better) than a single SD of the same number of CPU's

3) The same solution using RP8400's is £290k (at list price) cheaper than with a SD (with no SPOF and the same head room) - The upgrade by the way of a 32 Way SD to a 64 way SD is an absolute nightmare - its more a "marketing" upgrade than a technical one.

4) Support costs are a lot less now and in the future on the RP than the SD.

To answer your original question ref the backplane - If you use Oracle 9i RAC on the RP8400's with Hyperfabric cluster interconnect you achieve the same end result for a lot less money and NO SPOF.

Hope this help you - here's some actual perf figures for you:

HP server rp8400 (875MHz) M 4 54,000
HP server rp8400 (875MHz) M 8 100,000
HP server rp8400 (875MHz) M 12
HP server rp8400 (875MHz) M 16 180,000

HP 9000 SUPERDOME (PA-8700+) H 8 8 90,300
HP 9000 SUPERDOME (PA-8700+) H 8 16 168,500

Kind regards,

J
Tim Sanko
Trusted Contributor

Re: How to compare two Systems

George,

One last parting shot. SD can have PA8700 or PA8800 the PA8800 in the RP8400 is virtually the same as the SD32. Scalability and memory are the main differences. From what I see.

If you cluster 2 rp8400s with MCserviceguard they may manage close to the performance of an SD32. Then you are theoretically completely redundant.

The question was backplane and that translates to throughput. Real application measurement,(Your mileage may vary) has proven that there is a difference.

Why doen't HP make a 2GB FC that works in the V-Class? Money!!!! The additional throughput might make an RP8400/32 way much less attractive to US.

All arguments aside. The question is which will perform better for you comes down to the question, How much RAM do you need. If the 128 GB of the RP is fine, (We are running on 16 GB.) then either will do you. If your DB is large and hungry, (ORACLE 817, 9.2,INFORMIX, Sybase) then you may want an SD just in case.

Tim
Tim Sanko
Trusted Contributor

Re: How to compare two Systems

George,

When you bought the V-2600 do you recall that the V-Class had a 550 MZ CPU and the SD had a 552MZ CPU. They were the same real speed, the 552 was to encourage you to buy a SD.

Thanks be to Carly. Glory to the Wench with a forked tongue!!!

All kidding aside, I think that either system is a step up from a V-Class, but the SD has a higher ceiling. Good fortune.

Tim
Joshua Scott
Honored Contributor

Re: How to compare two Systems

Well, for one thing, the 32-way rp8420 lists for over $1,200,000 US. I don't think there is any TPM ratings available yet (if there are, I would be interested in knowing what kind of ratings they get!)

TPMs (sybase):
-V2600 w/ 32 552MHz CPUs : 115,300
-SD32 w/ 32 550MHz CPUs : 195,800
-SD32 w/ 32 750MHz CPUs : 244,750
-SD32 w/ 16 750MHz CPUs : 135,509
-rp8400 w/ 16 750MHz CPUs : 140,000

As you can see, the rp8400 with only 16 CPUs beats the V2600 with twice as many. Also, notice that the SD32 with the same number/speed CPUs is a 69.8% increase in TPM rating over the V2600.

There are more factors that go into performance than just processor speed. system and memory bus speeds, cache sizes, I/O speed, to name a few. The newer servers, (rp, SD) have those advantages to give them the extra boost.

Josh
What are the chances...
Ted Buis
Honored Contributor

Re: How to compare two Systems

The rp84x0 has one cross-bar to connect up to four cells together, while Superdome can have 1, 2 or 4 cross-bars to tie up to 16 cells together. Each cell is very similar for the rp8400 and for Superdome. But the pa-8800 cells have more processor and memory bandwidth than the pa8700+ (and earlier) cells. You cannot mix pa-8800 cells with older cells. Each cell (old or new) has four sockets, but the pa-8800 puts two CPUs on one chip in one socket. Before the rp8400 got the I/O expander option, only two cells could do I/O, so this limited it to two hard partitions and 1/2 the bandwidth of Superdome, but that is now not the case as the I/O expander is an option.
Mom 6