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home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

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Matthew Clarke
Regular Advisor

home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

Hi All,

I have attempted to 'network' two computers at home. I am using the local Cable Internet provider and a 8port soho switch. My only problem is that i can not see the other machine in the network neighbourhood. Both computers are accessing the internet fine, but when i browse the network neighbourhood, i only see the computer i am working on.

i have both computers setup to "automatically assign IP" and both are a part of the same "WORKGROUP"...now when in DOS and i issue an IPCONFIG command i am retuned with the following:

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : tlgw7.ktgc.phub.net.cable.rogers.com
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : xxx.xxx.21.62
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :xxx.xxx.23.1



now on the second machine i have a a different subnetmask, ip address (which is normal) and different default gateway, similar to this

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : tlgw7.ktgc.phub.net.cable.rogers.com
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : xxx.xxx.23.90
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.254.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :xxx.xxx.23.1


i am not able to ping either machine from the other, but as i stated, both machines have internet access.

the last thing that is different is that one has a user name to log in as, where the other just logs in as administrator.

i will try and get more specifis as needed.

Regards,

Matt
if you dont ask, you will never know :)
19 REPLIES
Ron Kinner
Honored Contributor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

First, XP does not by default have netbeui installed which is what your 98 is using to locate its network neighbors.

http://www.dictacomm.com/XPHelp/XP_NetBEUI.htm

Second, your IP masks and subnets do not match so you can't use the usually work around of putting entries in the LMHOSTS file. This is also why they can not ping each other.

This is very odd since they are presumably getting the IP address and subnet via DHCP from the cable company. Which PC has the 255.255.255.0 address? Do you have all of your XP patches from http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com

I would note the address, gateway and DNS server on the one with the 255.255.255.0 mask and change it to a static IP address. Use the same data but change the mask to match the other one (255.254.0.0). You should be able to ping the other machine now.

ipconfig /all
on the xp will show you the DNS addresses along with the ip and subnet and gateway.

on the 98 you use
winipcfg

I have read where some 98 machines will get a wrong subnet through DHCP but if you do a release and renew they will sometimes get it correctly. You can try the same thing on your XP if it is the bad one. ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renew

Ron
Matthew Clarke
Regular Advisor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

Hi Rob, I think you ment this for the other thread. Mine is with 2 win2k machines, no 98 or XP in this problem.
if you dont ask, you will never know :)
Jon Finley
Honored Contributor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

Well.... first off... your subnet masks should match, if the first 2 octets are the same.

Then, without a WINS server on your network, you ought to try using an LMHOSTS file to allow browsing both systems.

make sure that file and print sharing is added to your protocols.

Create a user (put them in the Admin's group if you want) that is the same ID and password on both systems (that way you won't have to do a connect as).

Jon
"Do or do not. There is no try!" - Yoda
Roger Faucher
Honored Contributor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

Matt:

It kinda looks like you're trying to make this work without a router. Are you running ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) on one of the systems? I assume you are. Normally you cannot have 2 or more systems with simultaneous internet access without either a router, ICS, or multiple IPs from the ISP.

Your ISP does offer "Multiple Computer Access" which will allow you to purchase up to a total of 5 IP addresses. Is this what you're using? If so, go here: http://www.rogershelp.com/help/content/how/member_services/3e9_multiple.shtml
for how to set it up.

Tell us more about your equipment/connections and we should be able to help you.

Roger



Make a great day!

Roger
Jim Kisco
Trusted Contributor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

Matt ;

I agree with Jon, please create the same login account on both PCs admin level, reboot and try to access. Wait up to 5 minutes before trying.

Make sure sharing on each drive letter of the hard drives is enabled.

Usually static IP addresses are used with this type of networking with ICS used to access the internet.

regards,
jim
Cynthia Garfold
Frequent Advisor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

Matt,

Several things must be in line before the two w2k machines will see each other.

First you must program the 8port soho that connects your lan with your isp to allow dhcp. Make sure that you have given the range of ip addresses that you want the isp to give your workstations when they log on. The two machines that are connected should have no hard coded ip addresses, subnet masks or dns or wins settings. The naming convention should be in the same workgroup.

Different subnet masks indicate a hardcoded entry somewhere.

Hope this helps. :)
Jorge Pinto Leite
Respected Contributor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

I partially agree with what has been said.
You need to have the same IP network address on both computers.
I don't think you are using ICS as this implies the sharing computer has an address like xxx.xxx.xxx.1
So I imagine you are connecting both PC's to the modem or whatever ISP gave you.
Why not having static IP address in lan, like 192.168.0.1 to the first and 192.168.0.2 to the second, and sharing the 192.168.0.1 internet connection? In this case you need to specify DNS servers on the second PC as well as specify the 192.168.0.1 as the default gateway.
Keep us updated.
Good luck,
Jorge

PS: Please note that Portuguese facilities are far from the ones you have... What I mean by this is that the solution I suggest works here, but I'm not sure there.
Matthew Clarke
Regular Advisor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

hey all,

thanks for the overwellming responses! i will try and answer all the questions to the best of my ability.

(1) I am not doing an internet sharing, through two computers.

(2) the setup is like this....cable modem is hooked up to an OLD netopia router model# R2020 (it was free). this router has 8 ports which has three computers hooked up to it. All three computers have internet access. But none of them can see any of the other computers within the house.

(3) I have tried setting up a proper network, with proper internal addresses along the lines of 192.168.0.10 192.168.0.11 etc....but when ever i do that, the DHCP server is gone and i am not able to get on the internet. So i resort back to the "Automatically assign IP address" and "Obtain DNS address automatically", which then gives me the addresses like 24.xxx.21.62 and 24.xxx.23.90 at which time internet access is available, but the computers can not see each other.

(4) File and print sharing are loaded, both computers have a user profile set up teh exact same, with admin privleges

(5) The router...i have had more grief then anything with this router....i am unable to telnet into it, to assign values, NATs, or even check settings. So i have even replaced the router with a switch, just to see if it would make any sort of difference...and sure enough...it DIDN'T

If there are any other suggestions, i will try them out...TIA for everyones contributions.

Regards,

Matt
if you dont ask, you will never know :)
Cynthia Garfold
Frequent Advisor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

What type of router and what are your current settings in each of the workstations under network properties?
Matthew Clarke
Regular Advisor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

hi Cynthia,

The router is a Netopia R2020 (originally used for two bonded lines)

i am unsure what you mean "current settings in each of the workstations under network properties? "

neither are a part of a domain, both are apart of the same WORKGROUP....and obtain IP and DNS addresses automatically....

feel free to ask for more information, i will try and answer as best i can.
if you dont ask, you will never know :)
Roger Faucher
Honored Contributor
Solution

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

Matt:

According to Netopia's website, the R2020 router is a dual-analog router (which means it should NOT have a cable connection). How confident are you about the model?

Replacing the router with a switch is not a viable solution (unless the switch happens to perform the DHCP Server function (which most do not).

I think if we can figure out the exact router information and get you 'talking' to it so you can change settings, etc, you'll be in business.

Why don't you post all/any info you can find on the router and we'll go from there. OR, you can just pay your cable company for a second IP address and be up and running with the switch (not the router).

Roger
Make a great day!

Roger
Roger Faucher
Honored Contributor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

Matt:

I just figured out that your router IS an R2020 but you're only using the 8-port switch part of the hardware. Right? That won't work!

I think you should go out and buy a proper broadband router (they typically support either DSL or cable or both) with an embedded 4-port (or 8-port) switch. A little setup and you'll be in business.

Linksys and D-Link are good choices, BTW.

Roger
Make a great day!

Roger
Matthew Clarke
Regular Advisor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

Hi Roger,

I am pretty sure you hit the nail on the head, and everythign is based on this router. I am 99% certain that this is the router model R2020. I think i should be getting a proper router like you suggested...tahnks to all i will assign points accordingly
if you dont ask, you will never know :)
Ron Kinner
Honored Contributor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

Not sure how I got on the 98 vs XP kick but most of what I said still goes. If the subnets are not correct then they can't talk to each other. Open a cmd window (start/run/cmd) and type:

ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renew
ipconfig /all

on the one with the 255.255.255.0 mask and
see if it gets a better mask the next time.

You can also go into services (right click on My Computer, select Manage then in the new window select Services and Applications and then Services. Find the DHCP client and stop it then start it again. Run the

ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renew
inconfig /all

again and see if it gets a better mask.

You can also try disabling and enabling the Local Area Network and then repeat the


ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renew
ipconfig /all

Finally you may have to completely remove TCP/IP protocol from the Local Area Network and reboot then reinstall it.

The builtin switch on the router should allow the PCs to talk. If you want to test it set up one PC to have 192.168.1.1 255.255.255.0 and the other to have 192.168.1.2 255.255.255.0 and leave the gateway blank. Now open a cmd window on the 192.168.1.1 and

ping 192.168.1.2

If you get a reply then the switch is good. (You won't be able to get to the internet with this config. We just want to test that it is possible for them to talk.)

Since you are being assigned valid Internet IP addresses the router is not doing NAT and the DHCP may be telling your PCs to do something like PPPoE and assigning a password so if you turn off DHCP you may be missing some key information that you require to get on the internet. I'd try it anyway just to see if it works. Do not forget to give it the DNS server address at the same time. Did they give you any software to put on your PC when they installed the cable modem? This might be preventing your two PCs from talking to each other.

Ron

(By the way there is no point hiding your IP address with xxx.xxx if you give me the fully qualified domain name.

nslookup tlgw7.ktgc.phub.net.cable.rogers.com

tells me the first two octaves)
Matthew Clarke
Regular Advisor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

thanks Ron, i will try these when i get home
if you dont ask, you will never know :)
Matthew Clarke
Regular Advisor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

ok, here is a new question, sort of along the same lines

If i upgrade one of the machines to winXP, get rid of the router, and use just the switch and ICS...do you think it will make a difference? or should i just spend the stupid 20$ on a linsys/dlink broadband router?

the wifey says no more spending... ;-)
if you dont ask, you will never know :)
Roger Faucher
Honored Contributor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

Matt:

I guess wifey doesn't get any value from the computer(s). Have you considered another wifey? ;-) Never mind, that's a different forum.

WINXP and ICS will allow both PCs to simultaneously access the internet and have seperate e-mail accounts but the second PCs access is (to some extent, at least) at the performance expense of the PC running ICS. Unless you know something I don't, WINXP costs more than a broadband router.

Whatever you decide, I wish you luck.

Roger

Make a great day!

Roger
Matthew Clarke
Regular Advisor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

Thanks again Roger,

I will install a second HDD and install XP on it, adn try the ICS and see how i do.

RE: the new wifey...it would be too $$$$ to replace ;-)
if you dont ask, you will never know :)
Ron Kinner
Honored Contributor

Re: home network where two win2k machines cannot see eachother.

ICS will expect you to have two NICs on the Master PC tho there is no need to upgrade (downgrade in my opinion) to XP. Win2K can do it too. So you would need to spend some $ there too. Of course, you could add a second NIC to each one and connect them with a crossover cable then they can talk over that without any problems and still get to the internet over their current connection. If you watch the Sunday sales you can get a NIC for $5 with a $5 rebate. My wife likes for me to buy rebate items because all of the rebate checks go to our vacation fund.

Ron