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Issues with the M$ Update site.

John Collier
Esteemed Contributor

Issues with the M$ Update site.

I am wondering if anybody besides me has been having any issues with the M$ update site over the last two days (yesterday and today to be specific) or if this is something that others have experienced as well.

To put it in a nut-shell, each time I have tried to get anything from the site, it will go through and take an inventory of the machine, list the available updates, give me the options to download and install them, but the download and subsequent installation fails within seconds.

Can anybody offer any additional info on this?

All of my machines (both at work and at home) are protected from the current virus, but there are other updates I would like to install on the work PCs as soon as possible.


Thanks!
"I expect to pass through this world but once. Any good, therefore, that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again." Stephen Krebbet, 1793-1855
28 REPLIES
Paul Sperry
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

I have had the same problem.
I think the recent blaster virus
has every one scrambeling to get the patch.

I am going to wait a few days and try again
Jay Bollyn
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

John,

As long as you are absolutely sure that your PC is not infected. Your experience sounds very similiar to this quote:

The worm also attempts to perform a Denial of Service (DoS) on the Microsoft Windows Update Web server (www.windowsupdate.com). This is an attempt to prevent you from applying a patch on your computer against the DCOM RPC vulnerability.

Here is the full URL (the context of that quote:)

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.blaster.c.worm.html

I used the MS update site yesterday (Thursday) during CDT business hours. It was the usual slow experience, but it was eventually successful. I think there is no excuse for MS to have a slow website, with their huge resources, but that is another issue. (Unless they are trying to run MS software on their servers.)

:-) Jay

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Roger Faucher
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

Can you guys imagine how many milllllions (imagine Dr. Evil) of people out there either are infected already or don't wan't to be and have not applied the fix (which MS published a month ago). They're all banging on windowsupdate.com

MS has also published a tool to check all computers on a LAN/WAN for infection and/or presence of the fix.

There are generous people on the internet who are hosting the patches as an alternative to MS.

Good luck!

Roger
Make a great day!

Roger
Marcial V
Advisor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

why would answer this, if all guys did it well.. just put the patch!

http://geocities.com/meduardo/patch

bye
badito
Perignon
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

Hi John,

The only recurrent problem I have is with hooking at the MS Web page out of the WIN update Hot-Key. Not always, but often enough.

Now we are all vulnerable to kinds of worms auto-protecting themselves against MS replies. Question of time I guess. Note that many Web servers are also offering an alternative protection against such a vicious infection. You may consider hunting for and trying one of those.

Alain.
Frustrations surmounted are paving the way to expertise.
Norman_21
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

John Collier,

Long time budd, I have just tried the Windowsupdate site and downloaded and updated some stuff successfully. Do you still have the same problem?
Here is the patch for th Blaster Worm, I don't really know if you have it installed or not but I would stronglt recommend the following:
1. Norton Anti-Virus Version 8.0 or higher if availabel. Off course keep updating the Virus Definition file, every Thursday Symantec Site update their definition file, go here: http://www.sarc.com .
2. Download and install the Free ZoneAlarm Fire will from http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/company/products/znalm/freeDownload.jsp?lid=zadb_zadown
Then configure the firewall to block and allow whatever according to your needs.
3. I have attended the IT Security Shop, please read here: http://www.ip3seminars.com/index.php
It is $700 value but I got it as a schooler ship from COMPTIA for Free!!! It covers alot of concepts about securing your network from Viruses, Trojans and worst the Code Red which totally expose your Computer. They recommend the Pestpatrol as one of the best Security tools available, please read here: http://www.pestpatrol.com


Hope this help.
"Attitudes are contagious, is yours worth catching"/ My first point was given by SEP on January 31, 2003
Norman_21
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

John,

The attachment didn't seem to work but I have sent it to your email address.
Please keep us updated.
"Attitudes are contagious, is yours worth catching"/ My first point was given by SEP on January 31, 2003
John Collier
Esteemed Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

Paul,

I had the same thought. Just wondering if anybody else had the same issue. Glad to see I???m not alone???


Jay, Alain, & Latif,

I am quite certain that the machines that I am attempting to use to reach the M$ Update site are worm free. There were two of us that spent the best part of Thursday morning assuring that this was the case.

Maricial,

The link you provided advises me that the page is not available. I would guess that the bandwidth cap for a site on GeoCities was probably exceeded and they pulled the page. Thanks for the thought anyway.


All,

These are machines in a corporate environment that I have tried to update with various other components from the M$ site. They have all been protected from the existing Blaster worm and there is no problem there. The simple fact of the matter is that during the patch process for this worm I found that several of the PCs were far behind on the ???regular??? updates as well. All I would like to do is to get the caught up in the remaining aspects as well.

All of my personal machines are, and have been, up to date on their patches for quite some time. I guess you could say that I???m rather anal-retentive in that aspect in my personal environment.

I have since heard from others around the work place that they are having the same issues with the M$ Update site. Like Rodger, most of us have to admit that some of it has to do with the heavy load that was placed on the M$ infrastructure in the last few days due to an overall panic from the M$ computing community.

What none of us can figure out is why it is taking the fine folks at M$ soooooooo incredibly long to decide that this is a problem and get it fixed. As far as I???m concerned, there is no good excuse for this issue to still be an issue. It is something that they obviously have the resources to address and resolve in a timely manner. I, for one, son???t understand why they appear to be letting it run for so long.

With the popularity of Linux on the rise as it is these days, it would seem that they would be rather interested in keeping their existing customers as happy as possible. This just doesn???t seem like a good business decision on their part.

On the issue of points for this thread, I am still thinking about how I will handle them. Give me a little while to think on that. I do promise that I will not let this thread go unpointed???
"I expect to pass through this world but once. Any good, therefore, that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again." Stephen Krebbet, 1793-1855
Jay Bollyn
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

I don't think any of us are worried about the points. I believe we are all ~ 100% in assigning points.

:-) Jay

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Jay Bollyn
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

John,

A couple of my guys have been using the MS update site all business day CDT (8/18 and 8/19), not having any problems, other than the usual slowness.

I have been thinking about this worm. To date, I have not worried much about MS CU because we have a good firewall and NAV Corporate Edition. I have changed my mind about this, because we have laptops that are used both at home and in the office. A laptop could get infected outside the firewall, and bring the worm into the intranet.

This particular worm is quite benign, but the next thing might be much worse. As admins, we have to assume that.

We are going to use a server to push the MS CU down to the clients. Running around to client PCs is really the pits.

Here is a thread I authored you might find interesting:

http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,,0x07e5d7e82f6a854fb4d4283ba7a6dbd1,00.html

:-) Jay

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Norman_21
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

John,

I thought to put my $0.2 for it's been in my mind. Instead of running among the workstations, install the NAV Corp Edition version 8.x in the Sever as following:

1. Symantec System Center.
2. NAV Snap-in.
3. Live update 1.6 administartion
4. NAV Corp Edition.

At the Clients side, install :

1. NAV Corp Edition for clients and select "Managed" option.

Once you update the NAV Definition file at the Server all the clients will be updated automatically!

Here is a documents:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/ent-security.nsf/9d94c8571a91ba4788256bf3007f62b5/e4dc25506b68e7fb88256c060077f101?OpenDocument

All the best!!


Once you
"Attitudes are contagious, is yours worth catching"/ My first point was given by SEP on January 31, 2003
John Collier
Esteemed Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

Jay,

I appreciate the link to your previous thread, but I have to admit that I have already seen it and read all of the information that you had offered there.

I have to agree with you on several of your points and I would do whatever it took to get that individual patch out to every PC ASAP. It was done here and we have had almost no problems on the core network {Knock on wood!!} while our remote locations have been hit pretty hard.

What I am seeing right now confuses me. You and Latif say that you have been able to successfully connect to and update software from the M$ Update site over the last couple days while myself and others are all reporting that we can???t manage to get the site to work properly for us (I have even found references to this on the Windoze message boards).

What is different between your setup and ours? Why are you able to make it work when I (and others like me) can???t seem to do so?

I have tried to do this for machines with NT4, Win2000, and XP and all of them have failed.

Any thoughts on what the difference might be?
"I expect to pass through this world but once. Any good, therefore, that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again." Stephen Krebbet, 1793-1855
Norman_21
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

John,

Sorry for my big mouth. However, the reason why you getting a probelm with some other floks while we don't, is because of Your internet GATEWAY. Who is your ISP, how do you connect to the internet. You might need to do some studies about that.
Also, you can install the GPO to apply the patch instead of running around all the Workstations.

Best of the Best.
Your Friend!
"Attitudes are contagious, is yours worth catching"/ My first point was given by SEP on January 31, 2003
Perignon
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

Hi all,

I'd say no sweat! Just keep having an eye to what some hot-fixes could do to your preferred configuration. For example, I discovered that security settings put to outlook had been re-enforced "in my back", I guess after a critical update downloaded from the MS site.

Everything is now working fine again.

Hope this odd experience can help.
Alain.

Frustrations surmounted are paving the way to expertise.
Jay Bollyn
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

John,

I agree with Xman that this is probably a problem with your connection to the MS site, rather than the MS site itself. I suggest VisualRoute, there is a 15-day free trial available for download here:

http://download.com.com/3000-2172-10016565.html

VR is basically a fancy graphical traceroute utility. It is very useful for problems like this.

http://orion.neiu.edu/~jbollyn/scrn-cap/visualroute-windows-update.jpg

If you run VR from your office, look especially for routers in the "%Loss" column.

Ont thing you might try is connect directly to the MS IP addr 81.52.248.97.

:-) Jay




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John Collier
Esteemed Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

Latif,

Let???s examine the theory that you have put forth.

Who is our ISP? How do we connect to the I-net?

Well, this corporation has approx 3 T3s (give or take one) that are dedicated for I-net traffic. Those T3???s go directly through the local telco and then straight into one of the worldwide long distance carriers. While I don???t have much faith in the local part, I feel a bit more at ease with the big one. I???m pretty sure that they are the ones that my traceroutes always identify as our first outside hop from here (the actual first hop from our firewall hits something that simply resolves to an IP address starting with 12.41.x.x so I can???t be completely sure of that).

I can???t think that everybody that has started gripe sessions with both M$ and others over this issue are all using just one company to connect to the update site. I have heard that there is some issue with the M$ servers constantly changing IP addresses which causes some problems with the DNS servers in some ISPs and M$ is supposed to be ???working with some of the ISPs to ???resolve??? this issue??? but I can???t really think that I can even blame the individual ISPs for a problem of that nature. After all, wouldn???t it be M$???s responsibility to keep these IPs somewhat stable to avoid such issues (if that is indeed what is causing this, that is)?

The issue isn???t with applying a patch for this latest little worm. That has been addressed and is no longer a issue at this time. All I want is for the update site to allow me (us) to actually apply the patches that it identifies our machines need.

I would like to know why some of you seem to be able to do this and the rest of us can???t. What is the logic and how do we resolve this?

Why can I connect to the site, get told what updates I need, yet still not be able to apply them? How will some of these tracerout tools help me to solve this? If I couldn???t connect at all to the update site, then it would make more sense to try them. As it is, I guess I just don???t see it???

Am I just being too dense?
"I expect to pass through this world but once. Any good, therefore, that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again." Stephen Krebbet, 1793-1855
Jay Bollyn
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

John,

I don't think you are being dense :-)

Based on your original post, it sounds like the problem is in the download, here is a quote from your root post:

"...but the download and subsequent installation fails within seconds."

We all know it takes time for a proper complete download from the MS site.

If you think that this might be some kind of DNS problem, I suggest link to a specific MS IP address, as I mentioned before. This of course takes DNS completely off the list of suspects.

:-) Jay

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Ron Kinner
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

Thought I'd chime in here. We have had no problem with the windowsupdate site. I put Win4K SP4 on a computer Monday night without any problem. Put IE6SP1 on the same computer the next morning. Worked as expected.

Assuming the ISP is not the source of the problem and eliminating the site itself leaves only your local firewall and network as culprits. You might check for duplex mismatches, errors on the routers etc. If it uses ftp to get the download to you then it would probably fail unless you set your IE to use Passive FTP (in the Tools/Internet Options/Advanced section).

Have you tried going to the catalog and downloading the software you need, then installing it locally? (You have to personalize the windowsupdate page to see the catalog.)

Ron
Jay Bollyn
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

I think anyone who is responsible for administration of multiple Windows clients should be looking at pushing down Critical Updates from a server. Relying on windows update is a joke; this is painfully obvious. We have all had problems similar to John's. Since there is a new CU every 10 days or so, this is clearly a job for a server.

I just authored a root post on this topic, would appreciate any comments posted there:

http://bizforums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,,0x2ad16fc82347594ca444e23e25ed35ff,00.html

:-) Jay

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Roger Faucher
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

Hi:

Is everyone aware of SUS (Software Update Services)? See: http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/windowsupdate/sus/default.asp

Roger
Make a great day!

Roger
Norman_21
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

John,

It's as indicated by the guys, to double check with the Networking guys or the Firewall guys to see if they blocked something. Also, if you are a part of the WAN Corp. why not calling one of the branches or the Corp. office to see if they have the same problem assuming they go thru the same Gateway. If you think something has to do with the IE settings. Try downloading another Browser, e.g) www.Mozilla.org or www.netscape.com just to test the download. Do you have problems downloading from other sites.

Just my $0.02 Cents.
Take care.
"Attitudes are contagious, is yours worth catching"/ My first point was given by SEP on January 31, 2003
Roger Faucher
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

Hi all:

Here's a quote from Brian Livingston's newletter which probably explains the difficulty.

"The programmer of Blaster, however, erred by directing the attack at the domain name windowsupdate.com. This name always redirected to the true name, windowsupdate.microsoft.com. Microsoft averted Blaster's attack by simply disabling the shorter name. The service itself remains operational, although it was slowed by the many Windows users who suddenly wanted to download patches."

See BriansBuzz.com for Brian's website or to subscribe to his newsletter.

HTH

Roger
Make a great day!

Roger
Norman_21
Honored Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

John,

I think Roger is right, Have you tried to use the removal tool from symantec:
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.blaster.worm.removal.tool.html

"Attitudes are contagious, is yours worth catching"/ My first point was given by SEP on January 31, 2003
John Collier
Esteemed Contributor

Re: Issues with the M$ Update site.

 
"I expect to pass through this world but once. Any good, therefore, that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again." Stephen Krebbet, 1793-1855