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Advance Server & Win9x

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Willem Grooters
Honored Contributor

Advance Server & Win9x

I have advanced Server 7.3A running (VMS 7.3-1), which has been declared PDC for a domain.
I added (manually) a PC (Win2K), and I can login into the domain from that machine.
However, WinME machines, set up to login into the domain, don't give the ability - the domain controller cannot be found. It may take ages before you can, if ever. However, after having tried to find other macines in the Microsoft Network, it suddenly seems possible to login into the domain. But next time the PC is started, again you cannot login into the domain.
I've understood it has to do with the underlying protocol (AS being in fact behaving as NT 3.5) but I'm sure there's a way to be able to login into the domain immediately.
Can anyone shine a light? Do I need extra software on these PC's? (SAMBA is NOT an option, BTW)

Willem
Willem Grooters
OpenVMS Developer & System Manager
10 REPLIES
Karl Rohwedder
Honored Contributor

Re: Advance Server & Win9x

YOu may try the newest release V7.3A-Eco2, but
according to the releasenotes, WindowsME is
not mentioned as a supported client plattform.

Btw. V7.3A is a Windows NT V4 server.
Antoniov.
Honored Contributor

Re: Advance Server & Win9x

Hi Willen,
sometime also my customer had this problem.
If you have Pathwork32 (client on PC) V7.1 you need upgrade to V7.2 or V7.3 because V7.1 have a lot of bug using win2k, win2k3 and/or win xp in the same domain; theese OS use kerberos crypted protocol to logon, so (I think) they can confuse win9x and/or server.
Win9x (lan manager based on netbeui) inquire network to build internal a map of network and use it when cannot access temporary to network. This function make brodcast (and noise) on network.
I think you could remove cripted logon on win2k (if you don't access to server XP or 2K or 2K3 too).
Also I removed client license at startup of PC and I use server based license on A/S to reduce network traffic.
Also on Win9x I've configurated with quick connection.

H.T.H.
Antoniov

Antonio Maria Vigliotti
Willem Grooters
Honored Contributor

Re: Advance Server & Win9x

Rohwedder: It's one of those things "to_do".
Antoniov: I don't use pathworks on any of these machines since it's not a requirement. You can well do without (I think). The AS machine is a license server as well, so that's no problem either (my W2K machine has no trouble...) I think I have encryption off there's no need for that on a small local network ;-)
I observe quite some network traffic (on the switch) when a W9x macine comes to life. It gets it's TCPIP parameters via DHCP from the VMS box as well, so the connection exists. But I cannot logon to the domain - it won't find the DC - and then as well there's quite some traffic.
Willem Grooters
OpenVMS Developer & System Manager
Antoniov.
Honored Contributor
Solution

Re: Advance Server & Win9x

Hi Willem,
WinME machine, in network property, client microsoft have right domain?
Also do you see a service as Group Policy (I don't know exactly english term because I see only Italian configuration)? This service, sometime, make problem with pathwork logon.
Also, check for workgroup name: I've found some problem when workgroup and domain have same name.
Also, domain logon (on Win9x and WinMe) use netbeui and don't use TPC/IP, so your PC have righ IP address but could not logon on domain.

Bye
Antoniov
Antonio Maria Vigliotti
Willem Grooters
Honored Contributor

Re: Advance Server & Win9x

WinME machine, in network property, client microsoft have right domain?

Yep.

Also do you see a service as Group Policy (I don't know exactly english term because I see only Italian configuration)?

Dunno. Will look to this (tonight), but I doubt there is.

Also, check for workgroup name:

A machine is either in a workgroup OR in a domain, isn't it? anyway, it was...

Also, domain logon (on Win9x and WinMe) use netbeui and don't use TPC/IP, so your PC have righ IP address but could not logon on domain.

Ok, I knew that already but I simply don't understand. The machine can reach the VMS machine, no problem at all with any IP-based protocol. It's only logon that failes. Do I have to do something specific on the ME machine?
I know I can specify logon paramters, but that's on a user-by-user basis, assuming you're always on the same (type of) machine. Well, I'm not.
Willem Grooters
OpenVMS Developer & System Manager
Brad McCusker
Respected Contributor

Re: Advance Server & Win9x

Windows ME was never supported with PATHWORKS for OpenVMS or Advanced Server for OpenVMS.

When it came out, it was considered and "at home" OS, and as such, a decision was made to not support it. To be perfectly frank, I don't think I've ever even seen such a machine, let alone, test or qualify it with PATHWORKS!

One of the other replies mentioned PATHWORKS 32. While you do NOT need PATHWORKS 32 to us the PATHWORKS for OpenVMS or Advanced Server for OpenVMS, it might be that using DECnet transport (via PATHWORKS 32 on the client) allows the WinME client to work with PATHWORKS for OpenVMS.

Brad McCusker
former project manager PATHWORKS for OpenVMS


Brad McCusker
Software Concepts International
Antoniov.
Honored Contributor

Re: Advance Server & Win9x

Yes Willem,
WinME use netbeui to logon in domain not TCP/IP; so I your Pathwork never support netbeui for logon (as I understand by Brad's post) you cannot logon into domain.
You have A/S 7.3A that's recent version; my customer have A/S 7.1 and they cannot logon using winxp client (because it's too old).

To get and send file you could use ftp.
Bye
Antoniov
Antonio Maria Vigliotti
Willem Grooters
Honored Contributor

Re: Advance Server & Win9x

Brad,
As far as i know, ME = 98 = 95 - in most aspects. So if W98 can connect, ME could ("never qualified" doesn't mean "it won't work.", does it?) Anyway, W98 didn't work either. I'll try Pathwoks32 and see what happens, that machine needs a rebuild anyway ;-) so failure is no problem.
Antonio,
I have NETBEUI enabled on AS, so I thought that would solve it - is didn't appearently.
Willem Grooters
OpenVMS Developer & System Manager
Antoniov.
Honored Contributor

Re: Advance Server & Win9x

Hi Willen,
in past I've used PW32 V7.1 and I'had your problem; then after upgrade PW32 V7.2 I've solved.
You don't use PW32 and I don't know this case.
You could try remove Group Policy (I don't know exactly english term) in Network Property and reboot WinME; sometimes has worked for my customers.

Bye
Antoniov
Antonio Maria Vigliotti
Brad McCusker
Respected Contributor

Re: Advance Server & Win9x

Willem,

You are right, "not tested" does not mean "does not work", and, I suspect it does. But, there might be situations where it doesn't work. Also, having never worked with it, I'm not sure how to troubleshoot it.

If you are having problems with Win98, then, you have a configuration problem of some sort, and, I would try to address that.

I wouldn't bother with PATHWORKS 32. It is not required to use PATHWORKS for OpenVMS.





Brad McCusker
Software Concepts International