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Alpha to I64 translator

 
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Robert Gezelter
Honored Contributor

Re: Alpha to I64 translator

Joe,

At some loss of efficiency, a translated image can invoke a native mode shareable library. I demonstrated this (and the performance implications) in my OpenVMS Technical Journal article on strategically using binary translation. This article, "Strategies for Migrating from Alpha and VAX systems to HP Integrity Servers on OpenVMS" is reachable at: http://www.rlgsc.com/publications/vmstechjournal/migrationstrategies.html.

Why are you translating the DECWindows images?

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com
Joe Gadsby
Advisor

Re: Alpha to I64 translator

Hi

I'm translating the DECwindows because it asks for it.

I translated RS162.exe and ran it.
It got past RS162_AV and said RS162ALL_AV was not found.

I translated that and ran RS162_AV.EXE and got -
-----------------
PROMB4->RS1
%DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image DECW$XTLIBSHRR5_AV
-CLI-E-IMAGEFNF, image file not found PROMB4$DKA7:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]DECW$
XTLIBSHRR5_AV.EXE;
------------------

I translated DECW$XTLIBSHRR5.exe and got

-----------------
PROMB4->RS1
%DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image DECW$XTLIBSHRR5_AV
-CLI-E-IMAGEFNF, image file not found PROMB4$DKA7:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]DECW$
XTLIBSHRR5_AV.EXE;
--------------------

I continued to "translate" until it stopped erroring out.

The decision to translate was made because the vendor doesn't support Integrity server yet and when I DID try to install I got

%ILINK-F-NOTOBJLIB, file SYS$SYSDEVICE:[RS1R62.BUILD]CALLABLE.OLB;1
is not an object library

I don't know how/why it is looking for the DECwindows_AV files.

Thanks !

-jg-
Highlighted
H.Becker
Honored Contributor

Re: Alpha to I64 translator

>>>
DECW$XTLIBSHRR5_AV
<<<
The native DECW$XTLIBSHRR5 seems to be available, it is on the system I currently have acces to. I would try to define DECW$XTLIBSHRR5_AV to DECW$XTLIBSHRR5. At the moment I don't understand why the _AV version is asked for. I would check if AEST put it into one of the translated images. ANALYZE/IMAGE should tell you. With the right qualifier set AEST may be able to tell you that at translation time as well.

As far as I can see, there is no need for a translated DECW$XTLIBSHRR5.


>>>
The decision to translate was made because the vendor doesn't support Integrity server yet and when I DID try to install I got

%ILINK-F-NOTOBJLIB, file SYS$SYSDEVICE:[RS1R62.BUILD]CALLABLE.OLB;1
is not an object library
<<<

It looks like the installation links at least one image and the OLB is not an I64/Elf object library.
Volker Halle
Honored Contributor

Re: Alpha to I64 translator

Joe,

from the HP OpenVMS Migration Software
for Alpha to Integrity Servers Release Notes (Feburary 2005):


DECwindows applications are not supported by HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integrity Servers (OSMAI).


Volker.
Steve Reece_3
Trusted Contributor

Re: Alpha to I64 translator

Have you got a web link for that document Volker? I'm interested in it as I suspect that higher level language calls for RDB won't be supported either...

Thanks
Steve
Volker Halle
Honored Contributor

Re: Alpha to I64 translator

Steve,

that document (HP OMSAIS release notes )is available on the HP OMSAIS download page:

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/omsva/osmai_release_notes.pdf

Volker.
Robert Gezelter
Honored Contributor

Re: Alpha to I64 translator

Gentlemen,

Please pay careful attention to "Not supported". In many cases, this means that the needed transfer vectors were not created. Creating the transfer vectors is not a difficult task.

Once the needed transfer vectors are created, calling between translated and native images works fine.

In the case of installation scripts, some custom engineering may be needed. Without having had a detailed look at this particular case, I would presume from the description that what may be necessary is the creation of a shareable library on Alpha, which is then translated. This shareable library can then be used with native code.

Been there, done that. In the case of my article, I actually developed a whole suite of test libraries, and ran identical benchmarks on all of the assortments to better understand the performance implications of applications where various parts of the suite were native and invoking translated code, and vice versa.

There is certainly no magic here, it is very well documented in both the documentation and in the Digital Technical Journal articles from the original Alpha migration.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com
Hoff
Honored Contributor

Re: Alpha to I64 translator

For these corner cases and for what are effectively, well, abandoned applications and tools, the use of Alpha emulation can be a better choice.

With a solution that's based on not messing with "it" more than you and the vendors of any constituent and prerequisite components are willing to mess with "it".

Then (and if and when applicable) start planning for a more substantial migration of your applications, or of your data and what the marketeers call "business logic." At why you started painting this fence, and what options might be available.

Or, and depending on your relationship with the vendor here, work on a native port of whatever third-party application is in use here. Sometimes that's a big project. Sometimes not.

Without intending disrespect to anyone involved here and to anyone that's worked on or using VEST and TIE, the OMS stuff will eventually force a migration; it's a stopgap approach at best. Emulation is a similar stopgap, but (when it works) with (comparatively) less effort to get to an operational configuration.
Joe Gadsby
Advisor

Re: Alpha to I64 translator

Hi

I went through the installation/compiling/etc options and was able to take out any (and all) areas regarding DECwindows.

I redid the installation on a test alpha and it all worked there.

I copied everything over to the Integrity server and ran the AEST thing on all .EXE

It works !!! (?)

Thanks for all the advice & comments !

-jg-
Joe Gadsby
Advisor

Re: Alpha to I64 translator

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