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Re: Dec-Net Plus setup

 
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Hoff
Honored Contributor

Re: Dec-Net Plus setup

If I was looking to operate DECnet on the same network segment and if the configuration didn't have to traverse any intervening IP routers or other IP-related networking devices, then I'd likely elect to shut down DECnet-Plus, uninstall it, and install and configure DECnet Phase IV.

 

While there are capabilities that DECnet-Plus can provide and DECnet Phase IV cannot, DECnet Phase IV is far simpler than DECnet-Plus (that product formerly known as Phase V), and Phase IV is generally far easier to manage, and Phase IV requires far fewer resources, and Phase IV is typically also rather more stable.

 

Here's an intro to DECnet Phase IV management

 

If I had disk space for copies and such (and a more complex network), then I might well use straight ftp or sftp for the file transfers, and avoid DECnet entirely.

 

If this is at all related to that MSA migration you were discussing a couple of months back, then I might well discuss this migration with somebody; getting the data across is usually accomplished rather quickly.  The OpenVMS software migrations involved in porting to Itanium can take longer, though.

robert70
Valued Contributor

Re: Dec-Net Plus setup

Thanks Hoff - yes this is to do with a system migration I discussed a few months back -

 

Have an Alpha running VMS 8.3 connected to an MSA1000 - looking to copy the data from this syste, to an RX2800i connected to a D2700 Disk Enclosure. Both Boxes on the same network.

 

Can transferring via FTP be done on large data sets? eg looking to transfer a total of 350Gb with the largest individual files about 4Gb. The network is 100BaseTX Full Duplex.

 

Cheers

 

Volker Halle
Honored Contributor

Re: Dec-Net Plus setup

Robert,

 

you can use DECnet node adresses (i.e. 1.1 and 1.2 - assuming you configured the 2nd node with an address of 1.2) instead of nodenames to copy files across ($ copy filename 1.2::DISK:[dir]). I do those kinds of operations all the time when migrating old VAX or Alpha systems to the CHARON emulators.

 

You need to have a disk on the target system (your RX2800i), that's big enough to hold the backup/image savesets of all the disks on your DS20E or at least the biggest possible saveset.

 

Make sure to include $ SET RMS/NET=127/EXTEND=65535 on both nodes (e.g. in LOGIN.COM) to improve the performance of the copy over DECnet. Then write some DCL batch jobs on your DS20E to do a BACKUP/IMAGE local_disk: 1.2""disk:[dev]local_disk.BCK/SAVE for all your local disks to be copied. Depending on the speed of your LAN interconnect and the CPU power of the DS20E, don't run more than 2-3 of those jobs in parallel.

 

Also take special note about BACKUP-I-NOBACKUP messages. If you've set files to /NOBACKUP to save space in your daily backups, now it's time to set those files back to /BACKUP to make sure the contents gets copied over to the new machine !

 

Volker.

 

 

robert70
Valued Contributor

Re: Dec-Net Plus setup

Thanks Volker - very useful thank you

Steven Schweda
Honored Contributor

Re: Dec-Net Plus setup

 
Hoff
Honored Contributor

Re: Dec-Net Plus setup

Yes, DECnet can work here.

 

And yes, all recent versions of ftp can be and variously are used to transfer multi-gigabyte files.   (Some of the oldest of the ftp software that's been around might toss a snit, though.)  HP uses ftp to download multi-gigabyte OpenVMS kits to customers quite regularly, after all.

 

100 MbE is slow, but this data-transfer operation clearly isn't time-critical.

 

The biggest issue with transferring larger files tends to be flaky network configurations, or flaky hardware.

 

One of the fastest ways to the transfer data involves adding a little extra storage hardware, and hauling stuff across on disk bricks.  Depending on the hardware that's added, you also have a backup copy, and some extra storage, and a connection for (for instance) an external SCSI tape device.   (But then this data transfer and this migration doesn't look to be time-critical.)

 

If using a network and ftp, then using current versions of zip and unzip (if you have extra storage to hold the intermediate files) can be used to compress the data for a faster network transfer.  zip 3.0 and unzip 6.0 (current, or later) can deal with multi-gigabyte large files.  (Older versions of zip and unzip cannot contend with larger files.)

 

it's also possible to zip a BACKUP saveset and ftp that, as HP does with variois of their software kits and software distributions.

 

If you do choose to use zip and ftp as part of this approach, then remember to use "-V" - that's a quoted, uppercase V, and the quotes and the uppercase are mandatory in the most common OpenVMS command-parsing environment - to cause zip to save the RMS file attributes.

 

The "gold standard" approach here is usually clustering.  Clustering allows the old and new systems to share all storage, and access all storage.  This then allows the current and new environments to operate entirely in parallel, meaning that the transitions and the migrations can be incremental.

 

And getting the files transferred is the smaller part of the project.

 

I'd expect that a brute-force transfer of a storage configuration as small as 300 GB should have been completed in a few days time to maybe a week on the outside, with that time involving setting up the DCL procedures, and waiting for the (lack of) speed of that 100 MbE connection, and then contending with whatever errors that Ethernet connection might encounter.   If all the computing hardware, storage and network hardware is correctly configured and working properly, then this transfer is probably a couple of days to implement, to transfer the data, and verify the results.  This data transfer is (usually) the easy part of a port.  Getting the applications and source code ported can sometimes take rather longer than a week.

robert70
Valued Contributor

Re: Dec-Net Plus setup

Thanks Steven and Hoff -

I only have versions 2.2 of ZIP and 5.52 of UNZIP here.

Where can you pickup zip31 and unzip61 from?

Thanks

 

Hoff
Honored Contributor

Re: Dec-Net Plus setup

Among (many) other discussions, zip and unzip intro; DCL foreign commands  has a download link, documentation on set-up and usage, and related information.  

 

(The versions of zip and unzip that available on the HP Freeware distros are stale, as are most of (all of?) the copies at the HP OpenVMS web site.  Use the Process Software link from the above page, or via the Info-Zip site.)

Steven Schweda
Honored Contributor

Re: Dec-Net Plus setup

 
robert70
Valued Contributor

Re: Dec-Net Plus setup

Hoff / Steve - thanks very much - very useful information

Will get these zip3 and unzip6 downloaded and start some testing with transferring between DS20E & RX2800i.

Plan to look at using DecNet or FTP or possibly DNFS.

 

Thanks