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01-28-2014 05:50 AM
01-28-2014 05:50 AM
I suspect that this is a CIFS problem, but it is possible that I am missing a C patch or that upgrading to OpenVMS 8.4 may fix the problem.
I will log a call with HP but wondered if anyone is able to reproduce the problem or confirm that it is not a problem on 8. 4?
When an ODS2 filename is 39 characters the "." disappears and CIFS presents the file type as part of the file name.
For example:
123456789012345678901234567890123456789.txt
is presented as:
123456789012345678901234567890123456789txt
Solved! Go to Solution.
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- CIFS
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01-28-2014 03:16 PM
01-28-2014 03:16 PM
Re: HP AXPVMS SAMBA V1.2-ECO1 CIFS PS2_11 ALPHA OpenVMS 8.3 ODS2 39 character file name
I can confirm that this problem also occurs on my system:
HP I64VMS OPENVMS V8.4 (update 8)
HP I64VMS SAMBA V1.2-ECO1 (PS2_11)
--------------------
Directory command from DCL on VMS:
Directory DISK$ODS2TEST:[CIFSTEST]
12345678901234567890123456789012345.TXT;1 0.50KB 28-JAN-2014 22:03:31
123456789012345678901234567890123456.TXT;1 1KB 28-JAN-2014 22:03:23
1234567890123456789012345678901234567.TXT;1 1KB 28-JAN-2014 22:02:56
12345678901234567890123456789012345678.TXT;1 1KB 28-JAN-2014 22:02:49
123456789012345678901234567890123456789.TXT;1 0.50KB 28-JAN-2014 22:02:36
Total of 5 files, 4KB
-----------------------
LS command from samba cilent (SAMBA$EXE:SAMBA$SMBCLIENT) on I64 VMS 8.4:
Domain=[VMSCIFS] OS=[OpenVMS] Server=[Samba 3.0.28a]
. D 0 Tue Jan 28 21:55:16 2014
.. D 0 Tue Jan 28 21:52:26 2014
12345678901234567890123456789012345.TXT 465 Tue Jan 28 22:03:31 2014
123456789012345678901234567890123456.TXT 556 Tue Jan 28 22:03:23 2014
1234567890123456789012345678901234567.TXT 536 Tue Jan 28 22:02:56 2014
12345678901234567890123456789012345678.TXT 871 Tue Jan 28 22:02:49 2014
123456789012345678901234567890123456789TXT 366 Tue Jan 28 22:02:36 2014
9297 blocks of size 512. 64256 blocks available
--------------
DIR command from Command Prompt on Windows XP:
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
C:\Documents and Settings\goodman>dir \\172.20.90.42\ODS2TEST\
Volume in drive \\172.20.90.42\ODS2TEST is ods2test
Volume Serial Number is 1188-2DDB
Directory of \\172.20.90.42\ODS2TEST
01/28/2014 04:55 PM <DIR> .
01/28/2014 04:52 PM <DIR> ..
01/28/2014 05:03 PM 465 12345678901234567890123456789012345.TXT
01/28/2014 05:03 PM 556 123456789012345678901234567890123456.TXT
01/28/2014 05:02 PM 536 1234567890123456789012345678901234567.TXT
01/28/2014 05:02 PM 871 12345678901234567890123456789012345678.TXT
01/28/2014 05:02 PM 366 123456789012345678901234567890123456789TXT
5 File(s) 2,794 bytes
2 Dir(s) 1,106,640,896 bytes free
-----------------------
Luckily for us we do not use ODS2 operationally anymore.
Jess Goodman
AccuWeather, Inc.
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01-29-2014 01:57 AM
01-29-2014 01:57 AM
Re: HP AXPVMS SAMBA V1.2-ECO1 CIFS PS2_11 ALPHA OpenVMS 8.3 ODS2 39 character file name
Jess, thank you for taking the time to confirm that this is also a problem on Intel OpenVMS 8.4.
I would prefer to use ODS5, but I cannot implement this immediately.
HP Support have reproduced the problem on both CIFS and Advanced Server.
It has been suggested by HP that CIFS may not be changed because the behaviour is consistent with Advanced Server.
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01-29-2014 04:15 PM
01-29-2014 04:15 PM
Re: HP AXPVMS SAMBA V1.2-ECO1 CIFS PS2_11 ALPHA OpenVMS 8.3 ODS2 39 character file name
>It has been suggested by HP that CIFS may not be changed because the behaviour is consistent with Advanced Server.
This is a classic example of what seems to be the new "engineering excellence" in HP OpenVMS engineering. Creative excuses to not fix manifest bugs.
By this logic no bug that ever gets into the wild will ever be fixed "because someone might depend on it".
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01-30-2014 04:40 AM
01-30-2014 04:40 AM
Re: HP AXPVMS SAMBA V1.2-ECO1 CIFS PS2_11 ALPHA OpenVMS 8.3 ODS2 39 character file name
John -
I agree with your concern about not fixing bugs "becuase that's the way its always been". But, I'm not so sure that is the case here.
PATHWORKS implemented the "float the dot" implementation that allowed file names to have greater than 39 characters before the extension. I recall we broke this at some point, I think trying to fix this exact problem (I am not sure if our "break" ever got released). I believe we then ended up documenting a limitation or restriction regarding certain file names on ODS2. I don't recall and I can't find what that limitation was.
It is possible that the limitation is this exact situation. I've searched through a lot of my old stuff and I can't find anything. I have a feeling it was all in the internal notes conference (HYDRA notes if there are any HP folks reading who still have access to Notes).
Just out of curiosity, what happens when you have a 40 character file name? Does it float the dot properly?
Brad McCusker
Software Concepts International
Software Concepts International
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01-30-2014 04:46 AM
01-30-2014 04:46 AM
Re: HP AXPVMS SAMBA V1.2-ECO1 CIFS PS2_11 ALPHA OpenVMS 8.3 ODS2 39 character file name
The more I think about this, I don't believe the behavior documented here matches the PATHWORKS behavior - does anyone still have a PATHWORKS V6 or Advanced Server machine that can test this?
When testing, include filenames that exceed 39 characters, please.
Brad McCusker
Software Concepts International
Software Concepts International
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01-30-2014 05:09 AM
01-30-2014 05:09 AM
Re: HP AXPVMS SAMBA V1.2-ECO1 CIFS PS2_11 ALPHA OpenVMS 8.3 ODS2 39 character file name
Hi,
I can confirm that on my ALPHA OpenVMS V8.3 system using Advanced Server V7.3B
on an ODS-2 disk a file named
123456789012345678901234567890123456789.txt;1
gets presented as
123456789012345678901234567890123456789TXT
John
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01-30-2014 05:48 AM
01-30-2014 05:48 AM
Re: HP AXPVMS SAMBA V1.2-ECO1 CIFS PS2_11 ALPHA OpenVMS 8.3 ODS2 39 character file name
Thanks John.
As I think about it, I think that makes sense. There is no way for us to know if that dot after the 40th character is a real dot or a pseuod dot for an eventual floated dot. One might quickly think that we should know its real becuase there is no "__2E" floowing it (which is the "floated dot") and I do believe that is what we once tried to fix and ended up concluding that it couldn't be fixed (without breaking something else). Or something like that.
Oh what I would give to have access to those old notes conferences - I am pretty sure this was thoroughly hashed out at the time. I also thought it was documented - probably in some release notes somewhere, but, again I couldn't find them anywhere.
Brad McCusker
Software Concepts International
Software Concepts International
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01-30-2014 08:58 AM
01-30-2014 08:58 AM
Re: HP AXPVMS SAMBA V1.2-ECO1 CIFS PS2_11 ALPHA OpenVMS 8.3 ODS2 39 character file name
Curiosity made me fire up the old MV3100 with OpenVMS V6.2 and:
$ admin show vers
PATHWORKS V6.1 for OpenVMS (Advanced Server)
! from Windows File Manager in Advanced Server share
! New -> Text File -- created 2 files, 39.3 and 40.3
! the dot disappeared on the 39.3 file.
! looking from CMD
K:>dir/b
1234567890123456789012345678901234567890.TXT
123456789012345678901234567890123456789TXT
! from vms
$ dir/col=1/nohead
DKA0:[USER.DOUG.TEST]123456789012345678901234567890123456789.0__2ETXT;1
DKA0:[USER.DOUG.TEST]123456789012345678901234567890123456789.TXT;1
! vms sees a dot
! Use Windows File Manager to rename the 39 file, inserting the dot before the TXT
K:\>dir/b
1234567890123456789012345678901234567890.TXT
123456789012345678901234567890123456789.TXT
! rename kept the dot
! from vms
$ dir/col=1/nohead
123456789012345678901234567890123456789.0__2ETXT;1
123456789012345678901234567890123456789.__2ETXT;1
! the dot is there and the extension is now escaped
So, rename treats the names differently. Interesting.
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01-31-2014 07:16 AM
01-31-2014 07:16 AM
Re: HP AXPVMS SAMBA V1.2-ECO1 CIFS PS2_11 ALPHA OpenVMS 8.3 ODS2 39 character file name
From the PATHWORKS V6.1 release notes (not sure if this ever appeared in any Advanced Server release notes):
7.3.1 OpenVMS File Names with a Dot at Position 40 Are Not
Displayed Properly from the Client
Problem:
If a file created natively on an OpenVMS system has a dot
at position 40 of its file name, the dot does not appear in
the file name when viewed from a client.
Solution:
If you want a file that is created on an OpenVMS system to
be viewed correctly from the client, give the file a name
that does not have a dot at position 40.
When performing an operation from the client on an OpenVMS
file that has a dot at position 40 of its name, treat the
file as if it has no dot. When you view a file created
on the client, a dot at position 40 in the file's name is
displayed, and you can perform any other operations on that
file as you normally would, including the dot in the file
name.
Software Concepts International