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Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

 
John Eerenberg
Valued Contributor

Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

I see the roadmap for OpenVMS but it is vague and stops around the year 2007/2008.

The HP web site has the "Retain Alpha Trust Program" and documents the longevity of Alpha support "at least trough 2011", but I can't find it for OpenVMS.

This same document refers to the "OpenVMS plan of record" but I can't find it.

I need to show senior management an official statement from HP stating how long OpenVMS is going to be supported. I need a statement for OpenVMS both on Alpha and Itanium.

Please understand upper management has only heard that OpenVMS is dead. I can only give them a concrete answer or none at all.

Can anyone help?
It is better to STQ then LDQ
20 REPLIES
Uwe Zessin
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

I can't really help as I am not employed by HP and only _they_ can answer. Have you tried to address this through an OpenVMS ambassador?
.
Hein van den Heuvel
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"


No, it does NOT stop around 2008. It stops filling in details, but all slides consistently show a suggestive, ongoing arrow beyond 2007.

Slide 8 specifically shows 'continued OpenVMS releases' beyond 2008.

And like you said, it talks about Alpha support at least through 2011.
What OS do you think those Alpha's will be running? OpenVMS!

No-one, HP employee or not, can or will, give you an answer here that will satisfy your management. You'll have to directly work with your sales-rep / support person for that.

Thanks for fighting the good fight!
Hein.

Antoniov.
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

John,
dont't forget agremment between Compaq and DoD (25 years of development) so now HP have to continue this.
And don't forget HP will release V8.2 for VAX too; this means HP would continue developing on VMS.
Contact HP ambassador for details.

Antonio Vigliotti
Antonio Maria Vigliotti
Willem Grooters
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

John,

I guess your upper management only read Gartner c.s. There a major flaw in their coverage: they forget to state there is an ARROW on the right , not a staight end. Meaning as HP stated: "The slides are simply too small".
Others have already mentioned the DoD commitment (which is, AFAIK 20 years, not 25, but these 20 years really don't matter).
Get your OpenVMS ambassador involved.

I doubt it will bubble up to Mark, Rich, or even Carly:
Would ANY of you give such a statement - in public?

Willem
Willem Grooters
OpenVMS Developer & System Manager
Willem Grooters
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

OOOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(which is, AFAIK 20 years, not 25, but these 20 years really don't matter).

Quite a typo!

Obviously, I meant:

... but these 5 years don't matter.

Willem
Willem Grooters
OpenVMS Developer & System Manager
Willem Grooters
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

John,

Have you thought of session on the bootcamp? You've been there so you would be able to get the global session documents. I don't know if NDA still applies, but I think it holds the info you need: Mark Gorham and Jane Velazquez can be called "Upper management", I guess.

Some other general sessions may hold relevant data as well:

[GS01] OpenVMS Strategy and Directions (MG) [GS02] OpenVMSâ Beyond 8.2 (JV)

[GS03] Integrity Servers Futures & directions
[GS06] OpenVMS and the Adaptive Enterprise [GS07] AlphaServers: Still More to Come

I couldn't reach all the docs (too big to get to them from where I am now; G02 = JV for sure, GS01 = MG is a guess, but rather sure it's right).

(Yet, I still would like to have some upper HP management person stand up and give the statement)..

Wil
Willem Grooters
OpenVMS Developer & System Manager
John Eerenberg
Valued Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

I realize there is a lot of activity on OpenVMS and I appreciate your support of me "fighting the good fight."

Our VMS amsbassador was deemed no longer needed; so this person has been gone 2 years not to be replaced. We were assigned a temporary ambassador for a special project last year, but he is no longer available for me to contact. Both of these guys were in other cities quite some distance away.

The sales people don't really support VMS here and prefer to move apps to proliant and HP-UX. No technical sales support at all. I am "training" the one person that has HP-UX internals knowledge. This person had no idea that buffer overflows and viruses cannot happen on VMS, it is hack proof, that VMS patches are not for security holes (expect in very rare intances), that there is a reason you need more then kernel and user modes, etc.

So, if there is a "plan of record" as the roadmap states, I'd love it if I could get a copy. 10 points awarded and problem solved.
It is better to STQ then LDQ
Antoniov.
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

John,
I have not seen any document with so long planning.
If you are interesting I can send you a zipped file (5 Mb) with HP presentation of VMS; Italian ambassador gave me last week of september.
It's a public document and may help you.

Antonio Vigliotti
Antonio Maria Vigliotti
Lawrence Czlapinski
Trusted Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

Martin P.J. Zinser
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

Hello John,

the roadmap has just been updated very recently. It does extend for OS releases to 2008 and given the fact that 8.2 is still in the 2004 slot this really should read 2009 ;-)

Nevertheless I do agree that if we are talking "senior" PHMs you need something more than a document from the web. I think you might want to get in touch with Sue to see if she could find an ambassador in your area. Also how about your local Decus (sorry, Encompass) LUG? I certainly would be able to must help via our ambassador there if needed.

Greetings, Martin
Willem Grooters
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

I signalled Sue for the missing ambassador. But she's in Europe now - if you happen so see her, urge her to read her e-mail ...

Willem
Willem Grooters
OpenVMS Developer & System Manager
Brad McCusker
Respected Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

The new roadmaps at http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm I believe are clear that releases go on past 2008. Slide 7 has a big error moving beyond 2008 and Slide 8 has a big arrow and text indicating beyond 2008.

(Do HP's competitors provide detailed roadmaps that go beyond 2008?)

I heard Mark Gorham (VP OpenVMS) speak at HP World to VMS releases going beyond 2008.

Maybe you should send a mail to Mr. Gorham, and ask him directly. Include your statement of need to convince upper management. His email would be the typcial first.last at hp.com format.

Brad McCusker
Brad McCusker
Software Concepts International
Ian Miller.
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

the VMS roadmap is detailed and stable. They have delivered on what they said certainly in the last couple of years.

Have you seen a roadmap from Microsoft or Sun recently - do they go on to 2008?

At the London TUD much emphasis was made on the fact that the sides have arrows on the right. The slides may end in 2008 or 9 but VMS goes on.

If there is anyone in Europe reading this and about to go to a Tech Update event then mention it to Sue otherwise wait until she catches up with her email.
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Purely Personal Opinion
Ian Miller.
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

Ask Microsoft how many years they will support Windows 2003(and bear in mind the poor record of upward compatability).

OpenVMS - the OS with uptimes longer than MS Windows Support policies (from openvms.org)
____________________
Purely Personal Opinion
Brad McCusker
Respected Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

>Ask Microsoft how many years they will
>support Windows 2003(and bear in mind the
>poor record of upward compatability).

I recognize the point of that statement, but, I want to be sure the base note is discussing roadmaps (i.e. new releases) and not support plans, correct?

Because the support statements currently extend support out to 2011. And, everytime I hear a VP talk about it, they claim "that is as far out as the lawyers will let us put on these slides" or something like that.
Brad McCusker
Software Concepts International
Ian Miller.
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

Brad, you are correct the original question is around roadmaps and how long VMS is going to be around. My comment was just born out of the frustration when I get questions asked like that about VMS when noone asks similar questions about Solaris or Windoz.

Brad, parhaps you can point Sue at this thread or find an appropriate resource to help John?
____________________
Purely Personal Opinion
Paul Jerrom
Valued Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

Mark Gorham has supplied me with letters in the past stating commitment to continued VMS development and support, so I suggest you contact him and request the same.
As an aside, the latest roadmap says at the bottom of slide 46 that VMS 5.5-2, 6.2 and 7.3-2 will be supported "indefinitely" - which I take it means we can happily use it until retirement! ;-D
Have fun,

Peejay
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If it can't be done with a VT220, who needs it?
Ian Miller.
Honored Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

The offical position on V5.5-2, V6.2 is that support will only be ended with 24 months notice posted on a specific web site.

One of Mark Gorham's letters may be your best bet. Email him and ask.
____________________
Purely Personal Opinion
Doug Phillips
Trusted Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

While reading this thread I had a thought similar to Ian's:

>>Have you seen a roadmap from Microsoft or Sun recently -

and I'd add HP-UX to that list, too. I spent a few minutes looking for something that would tell me what the future of HP-UX looks like but I didn't find anything. Is there anything?

Nothing solid at Sun, either, but maybe I just couldn't find it.

Fishing around at Microsoft finds a few documents that describe future plans like "Longhorn" (release slipped to 2006, some previously expected features won't ship with first release, etc.) but I found nothing like the OpenVMS Roadmap.

Can anyone provide links to any other operating system's "Roadmap" so we have something to compare ours with?

Maybe us VMSers are just spoiled because there's a link to our Roadmap right at the top of the OpenVMS home page.

Doug
John Eerenberg
Valued Contributor

Re: Help - Need OpenVMS "plan of record"

As usual, you can count on the VMS community to pitch in and support each other. Talk about thinking outside the box . . . :-)

Sad that this plan of record is so hard to find.

I've asked the HP people around here for the equivalent HP-UX statement and they said it was called a "drawer." Maybe that is the HP-UX roadmap. I don't expect much since I am still training them on VMS (he says with tongue in cheek).

I think my best course of action is to separate Alpha from Itanium and equate the longevity of VMS with the longevity of unix and itanium. Of course this is thin.

So in the mean time, I'll contact Mr. Gorham for an official statement. Hopefully, that will cement all this.

I agree with the responses concerning HP-UX, Windows, etc. No one ever asks for those. Not even Sun.

john
It is better to STQ then LDQ