If OpenVMS is profitable, where's the money going?

[Keith Parris]

One thing that's helping a lot in terms of HP culture is that OpenVMS now runs on Integrity Servers, even HP's flagship SuperDomes, and so OpenVMS information is being included automatically in all the sales material going out on the subject of Itanium systems. This is helping greatly in raising the awareness of pre-merger HP people that not only is OpenVMS not dead or gone, it is going forward into the future as an integral part of HP's Multi-OS strategy.

[Jan van den Ende]

Willem:
Yes, I DO know VISTECH. It's not too far off from the idea. If it would be possible to make a contest of the "try break the security", and, the main point; put some interesting prize on it AND GET THE WORD OUT TO THE OUTSIDE (non-VMS) WORLD. About the cheapest, most cost-effective marketing conceivable.
And see Anton's post: if only somehow the news gets to the young folks in a cool way (a la DEFCON), they are eager to get their hands on it, and once started, we all know most of them will turn enthousiastic!

John:
I mentioned TAF before. One thing told there was (Mark Gorham): "All commercial staff will shortly go to trainings to get them aware of OpenVMS and how to include it in their sales activities"
I don't know HP's definitions of "All" and "shortly", but apparently those that are your contacts eigther were not so short on the list, or the training was not really successfull.
But unless I start hearing stories where HP actively tries to sell VMS, instead of ONLY reluctantly supplying it if a customer cannot be convinced otherwise, I will remain sceptical.

Jan

[Willem Grooters]

John's remark:

Very simply, VMS is a vehicle, a bridge if you will, to other HP platforms

is exactly what my feelings were with the merger. "Strategic product" - in those area's. My remark that time: "to stay there or to get a foodhold to get it out in favour of HP-UX". I seem not to be the only one that have these feelings.
Given John's experiences it seems that at least at some offices, there's a LOT to be done.

[Willem Grooters]

keith stated:

One thing that's helping a lot in terms of HP culture is that OpenVMS now runs on Integrity Servers, even HP's flagship SuperDomes, and so OpenVMS information is being included automatically in all the sales material going out on the subject of Itanium systems

Who do you think would read it and understand? Still the big idea about VMS is "Old", "Legacy", "outdated", "unsupported", "No appliacions", "Uncertain future", "No main stream", "expensive".

THESE are the terms that need to be addressed. Not only at the CEO's and CIO's perception, but ISP's as well (like John said - ISV's "no longer promoting VMS and pushing 'gently' to other HP platforms" (what would mean HP-UX)). When an application is ported to VMS (as has been the case letyely) it should be notified wider than currently done (Sue, could this be one of the "success stories?"), as well as new(!) customers - and the reasons WHY they chose VMS over other systems. The press may need some brainwash as well, when HP won a contract - on VMS.
I would like that HP-UX and VMS are treated as equals by HP at least, but I'm afraid this will stay a wish....

[Antoniov.]

Dave,
I agree with you "Compaq dropped the ball on this, thus VMS suffered."
John,
I don't agree with you: HP is handling it better then Compaq; but this is not enough for VMS.
There is a few software and price positionament is too high.
I think some software could be avaiable with OS without licensing; it's already happened for TC/IP and DCPS: could be same for Advanced Server/Pathworks and C compiler.
In this way can increase the developers base.

@Antoniov

[John Eerenberg]

Antoniov,

> John,
> I don't agree with you: HP is handling it
> better then Compaq;
I hope you are right in the general case.

My comments were made in the context of the financial industry.

Tell me one CIO/CFO/CEO in the financial markets in the US especially the southest that knows about VMS and is smart enough to make it "polically correct" in their own orgraniation?

To address the general case outside the financial industry, I am willing to bet that within the Fortune 100 that almost all CIO/CFO/CEO politicaly support IBM, HP, etc. products but it will be a rare CIO/CFO/CEO to explicitly understand and desire VMS.

Can you name one CIO/CFO/CEO within the Fortune 100 that understands the massive benefits of VMS in terms of how it helps their business, desire's VMS for their organization due to these benefits, and goes on record with their peers backing them down when someone says, "Oh. VMS, that dead, antiquated OS." ?

The reality is that all us techies can be (or for newbies -- become) enthusiastic along with many low level managers, but the culture has to change at HP sales -- that is a given. And, perhaps more importantly, the culture has to change at at the CIO/CFO/CEO level of the large companies too (maybe the non-large companies too?). These executives are proud about their technology decisions; they privately brag about how "this or that technology" will enable them to stomp the competition, make them more efficient, reduce costs, etc. The "this or that technology" does not include VMS. I would honestly like to read about a few dozen CIO/CFO/CEO within the Fortune 100 put VMS in a positive light. :-)

If I can read such commentary, I will then take a few examples and present them to a mid-level manager I know. ;-)

My point is A) this could be the reason why products subordinate to VMS are gaining market share and VMS is in limbo at best. B) To steal and change a line from James Carvel, "IT'S THE CULTURE, stupid."

[labadie_1]

I agree with others that I feel HP thinks Vms is for big customers: but there is a paradox: no Erp (Sap, Oracle applications...) is available on Vms. And I know a good number of sites have left Vms because they were installing an Erp, not because they were unhappy with Vms. And with an Erp, we can be sure this customer will be on Vms for long.

:-(

[Antoniov.]

John, Labadie,
focus is "there is no enough software for Vms" so I repeat HP should help software house that's developing using this platform.
My post abou C compiler and A/S recall the real difficult for developments and customer too.
Big customer can't find erp, little customer pay for free software on concurrent platforms.
Vms is old? When Linus Toward thought to linux, many people said *nix is old but now Linux is used worlwide; Vms is more strong and more secure than Linux: if OS is released with Apache, PHP, Perl inside may be offered as secure web server.
It's only an idea but focus is on software avaiable (free and payment software).

@Antoniov

[Willem Grooters]

Gerard is right.
That's just one of the major issues, as I already pointed out (as stated, we had this on our back). I don't think this is an issue for the sales department directly (although sales could play a big role in it), probably more a management issue.
AKAIK, companies that deliver ERP packages (JDEdwards, SAP, BAAN are the ones I know of) run on HP-UX - I would think these are HP-business partners. I won't say they need to be forced to port their applications to VMS, but some pressure from HP could help. Both HP-UX and VMS are now HP products so HP won't lose anything!
It has been shown before - at least, it has been stated - that porting a Unix application to VMS wasn't that difficult with the GNV initiative. So what is the reason that at least the basic ERP stuff hasn't been ported yet? If this is because of the uncertainty of VMS's future and market, then there is quite a lot of explanation to be done - mostly by the partner-channel department, but by ESG management as well!

[Willem Grooters]

Antonio,

Nice thought on "contacting a softwarehouse" for developing thes products.
I guess a lot of VMS-professionals would welcome the idea but I'm afraid it won't happen - unless (see my previous port) bigger ISV's would be involved to have their application ported (this time: properly: to VMS, not to GNV).
Nevertheless, I think that even in a less formal circuit there is a lot of potential. There is a good deal of OS-related and system-management-related software available - as you will undoubtably know. But the main issue is all about business applications: non-technical stuff. You don't do this on your own - and not without some secured payment (unless you have other ways of income; but how many of us can be called a multi-millionaire...).
But I agree that lower prices, or inclusion of licenses of certian products would help. TCPIP should be part of the OS anyway (no extra licenses), and compilers need to be affordable. It need to be paid, though, by your customer!
Otherwise, you'll be stuck with (Unix-based...) open source software, as far as it runs on VMS...