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Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

 
Cass Witkowski
Trusted Contributor

Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

I need to run DSM (Digital Standard Mumps) that currently runs on Alpha OpenVMS and run it on I64 OpenVMS. DSM is now handled by Intersystems so I don't have the source code.

Is there an Alpha to I64 emulator or something that I can just take the Alpha exe and run it on the I64 OpenVMS? Also DSM only works on OpenVMS V7.3-2.

Thanks
Cass
13 REPLIES 13
Richard Whalen
Honored Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

You'll probably end up running one of Intersystems current products: Cache, Ensemble, HealthShare or TrakCare
Tom O'Toole
Respected Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS


Hope you don't REALLY need to run DSM on ia64, because I don't think the chances for success are high. The whole DSM package would probably not translate using aest, since it has privileged code. It's not just DSM.exe, there are shareable images, etc...

Like the other poster said, cache (if your app is cache compliant, or can be made to be,) that's your best bet. Cache has a lot of nice improvements over DSM too.
Can you imagine if we used PCs to manage our enterprise systems? ... oops.
Jim_McKinney
Honored Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

DSM v7.3 (the last/latest version) also ran on VAX/VMS. There is a Charon VAX emulator for I64/VMS. So, I suppose, you'd be able to run DSM in the VAX/VMS emulation on I64. I've not heard of any Alpha-VMS emulator for I64.
Hein van den Heuvel
Honored Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

>> I need to run DSM (Digital Standard Mumps) that currently runs on Alpha OpenVMS and run it on I64 OpenVMS.

Why? Political reasons?
Outsourced hardware 'refuses' to accept an Alpha?

At what cost? You may want to qualify that 'need to' with a price and performance target. Be sure to add in your effort.

You may find that just stinking to the current solution, perhaps acquiring an extra Alpha, might not be sexy and might not find in the grand plan but is the optimal way to go forward, notably for the bigger systems.

Software International has, as you surely know Charon-vax (available through resellers in the US). That allows you to present a VAX look and feel under Windows on i86 'Industry Standrad Servers'.

They recently added CHARON-VAX/3198 for OpenVMS Integrity.
They also already have Charon-AXP for Windows.
Something like a Charon-AXP for OpenVMS Integrity would fit in that line up, for (smaller?) Alpha solutions. Of course this is pure speculation / extrapolation from public information. I have no official knowledge of these matters.
http://www.softresint.com/charon-axp/product_overview.htm

In the past the SRI folks, notably Arie de Groot, have always been present at the bootcamp for talks or the vendor reception. You may want to touch base with them, and maybe meet at the OpenVMS boot camp in Nashua in a couple of weeks?

Also, it would not surprise me to see Camile vanderhoeven at the OpenVMS boot camp to explain about his Open-Source Alpha Emulator. Not sure where that will go, as far as performance is concerned or production level support infrastructure.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/es40

Hope this helps some,
Hein.
Guy Peleg
Respected Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

Cass,

The natural migration path for DSM customers
is Cache. DSM provides excellent performance,
assuming performance is still your goal,
I do not think that emulation or "AESTing"
is a viable solution.

As Hein mentioned, if there are political
issues and you can't go to Cache (I have
worked with a customer that the cost
of the Cache license exceeded the cost
of the Integrity hardware BY FAR!), I would
investigate using one of SRI's solution,
this path has higher chances of success.

HTH,

Guy
Wim Van den Wyngaert
Honored Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

I already asked an analogue question.
http://forums12.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?admit=109447627+1206525385881+28353475&threadId=854412

We need to get DSM going on Alpha at least until 2019 or extract all data from 120 monthly backups and keep that. Our Alphaserver 1000 could handle that (we have 3 of them with 0 defects in 13 years). But how long is HP going to support them ??? Currently until 2012.

And Cache is not an option. The Alpha simulator could be.

Fwiw

Wim
Wim
Cass Witkowski
Trusted Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

Our customer has a third party application which the vendor will not port to Cache. We want to move forward with Itanium but have to still run this software which runs on DSM.

I'm just exploring what is avaialable. Being able to run OpenVMS V7.3 ALPHA on OpenVMS Itanium V8.3+ could solve the problem as long as multiple processes can do this and share memory so that DSM would work.

All ideas are welcomed

Cass
Tom O'Toole
Respected Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS


Maybe the best option is to self-support - If you can get a bunch alpha systems on the cheap, you will have replacement parts/systems available.
Can you imagine if we used PCs to manage our enterprise systems? ... oops.
Jan van den Ende
Honored Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

Cass,

>>>
We want to move forward with Itanium but have to still run this software which runs on DSM.
<<<

I guess this might already have occurred to you, but... Is a mixed cluster an option here?

In the Vax->Alpha timeframe we also had one (rather vital) app that could run ONLY on Vax (being replaced, but YEARS delayed) that supplied & needed data to/from an other app, for which the desired new functionality was ONLY available on Alpha.

A mixed cluster, with shared access to that data (after all, it IS a VMS cluster!) was the very simple way to do just that (although we never succeeded in explaining to management WHAT we did, nor HOW we did it :-) ).

Can an Alpha-IA64 cluster be made to do something similar for you?

Just a thought...


Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe
Don't rust yours pelled jacker to fine doll missed aches.
Hoff
Honored Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

Here's a left-field option that you may or may not want to consider, or that you may or may not be permitted to consider, or even mention:

GT.M

http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/freewarev80/gtm/

And yes, hardware self-support or negotiating a contract for specific hardware configuration support with HP or with a third-party is certainly feasible.

Stephen Hoffman
HoffmanLabs LLC
Cass Witkowski
Trusted Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

Ideally there would be a way to run DSM and the 3rd party application that is dependent on DSM on OpenVMS I64. This way I can avoid the cost of 50+ DS10s.

Having the DS10s in a cluster with the I64 would be nice but according to the documentation, OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 is only supported with I64 version V8.2

There would be support issue movind the application to Cache or GT.M since it is a 3rd party app.
Hein van den Heuvel
Honored Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

>> This way I can avoid the cost of 50+ DS10s.

Maybe a (second hand) slighty more powerful Alpha provides a better economy (fewer disks, network connections, fewer systems to maintenan...) ?

>> Having the DS10s in a cluster with the I64 would be nice but according to the documentation, OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 is only supported with I64 version V8.2

BS argument.
If DSM would run on OpenVMS Itanium then it would be used under 8.3.
So apparently there is a willingness to go to 8.3 (for the right reason) Right?
Why not just go there now on the Alpha's?
That 'migration' is 10 times easier, and in your case 10,000 times easier, than the migration to itanium.

>> There would be support issue movind the application to Cache or GT.M since it is a 3rd party app.

And there is probably a support issue going to 8.3 also, but that ought to be negotiably, notably if you are willing to just try. The vendor(s) may like to know it works unders 8.3

fwiw,
Hein.
Cass Witkowski
Trusted Contributor

Re: Running DSM on I64 OpenVMS

I have 50 different sites so I can't use one big Alpha.