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SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

 
T. Simpson
Occasional Advisor

SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

From the information that I've found so far, it appears that we will not be able to execute SYSMAN on remote (non-clustered) systems without DECnet.

I assume that I can "upgrade?" to DECnet-OSI and SYSMAN should work using DECnet-over-IP, however I'd REALLY rather NOT upgrade.

So, without DECnet-OSI is the answer still NO?
11 REPLIES
Volker Halle
Honored Contributor

Re: SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

Tom,

from the SYSMAN documentation:

"The SET ENVIRONMENT command defines the target nodes or cluster for subsequent commands. When invoked, the system management environment is the local node where you are running SYSMAN. You can change the environment to any other nodes in the cluster, the entire cluster, or any nodes or cluster available through DECnet."

You must run DECnet to access the remote node. DECnet-over-IP works fine.

I just tested it and SYSMAN even accepts FQDN names for the remote node (if running DECnet-over-IP):

SYSMAN> SET ENV/NODE=node.domain.whatever

Volker.
Jan van den Ende
Honored Contributor

Re: SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

Tom


So, without DECnet-OSI is the answer still NO?


Not strictly.

You need DECnet, but Phase IV will do!
(of course, If you use DECnet IV, all other nodes of interest should also use Phase IV _OR_ phase V with Phase IV compatibility enabled).
And do not forget to check that any intermediate network components allow DECnet, nowadays for sure not granted!

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe
Don't rust yours pelled jacker to fine doll missed aches.
Dave Gudewicz
Valued Contributor

Re: SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

SYSMAN works fine with DECnet Phase IV. DECnet/OSI is not a requirement.

Dave...
Volker Halle
Honored Contributor

Re: SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

... maybe Tom was asking this question, because either the local or remote node is not running DECnet or the network between the nodes does not route DECnet.

Volker.
T. Simpson
Occasional Advisor

Re: SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

Sorry, I guess I should have stated the problem more clearly...

I'm running DECnet phase IV. Our network support group is dropping support for DECnet routing. It would be nice to continue to use SYSMAN without upgrading to phase V.

Thanks,
Tom
Jan van den Ende
Honored Contributor

Re: SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

Tom,


Our network support group is dropping support for DECnet routing.


Do not protest, SCREAM!!!!

Alas, you are not alone.
Maybe you can explain to your management that you are severely hampered by those plans, but I am afraid it is a loosing battle... :-(

Are they "just" dropping DECnet, because they do not understand it, (or your need), or are they changing hardware and the new stuff does not support it?
1st case, you should be able to make your case. THEY want to INTERRUPT the RUNNING BUSINESS!
2nd case: CAN it really not be configured for DECnet, or are they just lazy/uninterested? The latter, see 1st case.

... but if they just switch you off, what can you do?

And it can grow worse: if they will NOT allow ports 200 & 399 you can nit even use DECNET-OVER-IP.

I pity you the same way I pitied me (us) 5 years ago...

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe
Don't rust yours pelled jacker to fine doll missed aches.
Heinz W Genhart
Honored Contributor

Re: SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

Hi T.

At our location, they decided in 2001 not to route DECnet anymore. So we changed to DECnet OSI. This time we had more than 750 OpenVMS Systems. We prepared this change very well and then we did it within 2 hours on all the 750 Systems without any problem.

We live in a environment with many firewalls. But they have all opened Port 102 and port 399 for DECnet OSI comunication.

I would recommend to do the transition to DECnet OSI. So you will be prepared for the future. At our location they save a lot of money, since they don't support the DECnet stack on Cisco. The OpenVMS crew, the developpers and the users don't feel any difference between Phase IV and DECnet OSI.

Regards

Heinz
Andreas Vollmer
Valued Contributor

Re: SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

Hello Tom,
I do agree with Jan...
But anyhow you need a solution.

I assume your company network is using CISCO equipment...
With the router replacement to larger types the DCEnet routing will be charged separately by CISCO (for the DECnet routing capability of the router). The yearly costs for this are impressive!

I suggest to consider a migration to DECnet-Plus with DECnet Phase IV support.
With DECnet over IP it works transparent and perfect.
Important is that this approach will be tested thoroghly and you got the approval of the application support.
The migration from Phase IV to Phase V is not so difficult but it needs a proper planning and checklists. Some hands-on training is strongly recommended.
My friend Colin Butcher (XDELTA) helped me and my previous employer with the DECnet over IP training and how to implement.
Unfortunately the application were not able to handle the DECnet-Plus because of bad DECnet programming and lost of code source.
But this is/was not a problem of DECnet-Plus respectively DECnet over IP.
At my private network at home a use DECnet-Plus (incl DECnet over IP) on my both AXP server without any problem.

I hope my feedback gives you a clue that a converting to DECnet-Plus a possible but it needs effort and money to.
Now it is up to you to compare the costs and decide what is more feasable for you.
Kind Regards
Andreas
OpenVMS Forever!
Ian Miller.
Honored Contributor

Re: SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

Some extra info on DECnet over IP
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/network/decnet_over_tcpip.html

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v5/decnet.html

____________________
Purely Personal Opinion
T. Simpson
Occasional Advisor

Re: SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

Our networking equipment is CISCO, so I'm sure it's a cost issue.

I setup and used DECnet-OSI on the production cluster on my previous employer's ES40 systems and it worked fine, so I have no problem using the product. I simply (strongly) dislike the NCL user interface and all the various external scripts associated with managing it and avoid it (like the plague) if possible...

Thanks for the information and pointers.

Regards,
Tom
Ian Miller.
Honored Contributor

Re: SYSMAN to remote systems w/o DECnet?

NCL is not that bad once you get used to it (the first 10 years are the worst :-).
It is based on a logical entity model so is more consistant than NCP.
____________________
Purely Personal Opinion