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Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

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Honored Contributor

Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

Hello again,

I was aked this by one of our customers who is reluctant to do the transition from 11.00 to 11.11.

We would like to persuade them into 11i because we see that any new software, OSS, and patch releases are more and more exclusively focused on 11i.

The customer is expecting new HW in a few month and it would cost us some extra fuss to downgrade to 11.00.

Of coruse, I know that the customer's application is relevant for choice of OS release.
But since they have Oracle 9i DBs running,
also with the prospect of soon transit to 10g,
I think there should be no major obstacle.

In fact we already host 11.11 servers that run SAP R/3 that also run Oracle9 as backend,
and we faced no real difficulty when we upgraded those boxes.

The customer wants to know what the major differences were between 11.00 (what they now have), and 11i.

Maybe you could point me to some URL where there is a short juxtaposition of both,
comprehensible by the customer?

Also of relevance would be to know if HP have a set date from when they will relinquish support for 11.00.

Thanks for your help
Ralph
Madness, thy name is system administration
16 REPLIES
Outstanding Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

End of support is easy:

http://www.hp.com/softwarereleases/releases-media2/history/slide2.html

It's December 31, 2006.


Differences are a little harder to point to a URL. The only thing I can think of would be the Release Notes:
http://www.docs.hp.com/en/5185-4304/index.html
I can tell you though, that the differences were not all that great: more dynamic kernel parameters being the main one that I recall. And I have to mention that, in my experience, the transition was painless.

Good luck,


Pete

Pete

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

Easy question 1st:
31st December 2006 is End of Support date.

For the differences, I would read the Release Notes, and maybe the Admin Manual if you are not feeling sleepy.
My house is the bank's, my money the wife's, But my opinions belong to me, not HP!
Outstanding Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

The other difference I should have thought of is the repackaging into Operating Environments.


Pete

Pete
Outstanding Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

And, finally, one last thought:

You should check that the clients servers are going to support 11i, in particular if you're going to run 64 bit:

http://www.testdrive.hp.com/STKT/serversupport.html


Pete

Pete
Honored Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

Ralph

for Oracle 10G you need 11i

Regards
Jean-Luc
fiat lux
Honored Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

It's real important to point out to your customer that you cannot order 11.0 from HP at all! So for your new servers, you have to 'borrow' an 11.0 CD from a previous system. Once HP stops selling the OS, the level of effort to add features and improve operation of an OS version begins to drop rapidly. It is very important to have product lifecycles for every server, something that defines it's useful life. Buying a new server and then jam-fitting an old OS onto it is a recipe for big sysadmin problems. Having a mixture of systems (11.0, 11.11, etc) can be a nightmare as some commands don't exist on the older systems. And most new products offered by HP do not run on anything except 11.11.

The list of features for 11.11 should only be a SMALL part of the decision to upgrade. The real cost of ownership is maintanance and stability. As HP terminates active development, and later, active support, your 11.0 systems will be orphans, waiting for some issue to develop that can only be addressed by upgrading. Cost of ownership is almost always overlooked in the decision process for upgrades, but it is the most costly part of the picture.


Bill Hassell, sysadmin
Honored Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

Depending on the new hardware that your customer is getting, you will probably NOT be able to even run 11.0 on it. I would actually look at getting the new stuff with 11.23PI rather than 11.11.
Respected Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

To gain their trust also make sure they test their stuff on the new OS ahead of upgrade time, in case they did something silly in their code like hard code a library hehe. HP does have labs around the country for this sort of thing if you dont have the servers. I would go to 11iv2. Also sell them on your new features. Talk to your vendor rep. He probably can get an expert to answer some questions/fears your customer is having with cofidence and help get them over the hurdle too. They may be able to help hook you up with that lab too if you need it. It cant hurt to check.
Honored Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

From Metalink

Oracle 10G certified on both PA-RISC HPUX11iv2 (11.23) and itanium HPUX11iv2 (11.23)

check for existing patchset.

There is also a 10G r2 to come around 2005 Q4

Regards
Jean-Luc
fiat lux
Honored Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

Hello Friends,

many thanks for your remarks.

I sent the URL to this thread to an admin colleague of the customer for further inspection of it by herself,
thus avoiding needless repetitions.

Regards
Ralph
Madness, thy name is system administration
Honored Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

Featurewise I'd go with 11i over 11.00 any day, better application support, many features that will become important over years (iSCSI,IPv6) and availability stuff like OLA/R or even some fine tuning to lvm commands (pvchange -a n, etc.)
Also the kernel is more tunable.
yesterday I stood at the edge. Today I'm one step ahead.
Honored Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

Here's a good doc on 11iv2 quick specs:

http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12079_div/12079_div.HTML

As well here's a overview I got last year:

What's new with HP-UX 11i V2

11i V2 is the next release of 11i, coming initially for Itanium servers only. A PA Risc processor version will be released late this year called 11.23PI.

It appears HP has changed the way we handle the kernel with this release. The core kernel is basically a frozen piece of code. Configurations are created that are applied at boot up or on the fly. Multiple configurations can exist at the same time. Many "tunables" are now dynamic, some even becoming more or less part of the kernel, so they do not need to be changed. The OS manages these parameters automatically. Some drivers can be added and removed on the fly, like CDFS file system. I expect V3 will add even more DLKM products.

Management of HP-UX is also changing. SAM functionality is reduced in this release as new web based tools are taking over these functions. It is expected that SAM will eventually be completely removed. kcweb is the tool used for tuning the kernel. pdweb manages periferal devices and SPB (software package builder). SCM or HP Systems Insight Manager becomes a major component of system administration. parmgr is the tool used for partition management. All have both GUI and command line interfaces.

Presently, when you boot a PA Risc system, you interact with the PDC, BCH and ISL. A new layered boot tool allows for standardization when booting different platforms. An EFI boot services layer sits on top of a SAL (system abstraction layer) which sits on top of a PAL (processor abstraction layer) which talks to the microcode.

Disk layout changes may not directly impact you, but are something you need to be aware of. Besides the LIF, ISL and HP-UX areas there is now a MBR (master boot record. not used), a Partition Table (duplicated at end of disk), an EFI partition and a HP Service Partition. The ISL is no longer used and is now part of the HP-UX area for compatibility reasons.

When you cold install a system, you can choose a security level. Bastille is part of the OS and is run at install time. There are 4 options you can choose from when you install. These are Security Tool Infrastructure installation only, Host-based lockdown, DMZ Manager lockdown or Full DMZ lockdown.

The customer class also covers n-Par information and commands.

Several library changes happening may be of interest to programmers and application administrators. New aC++ support libraries, enhanced math libraries and more.

CDE is being deprecated. It runs through the Aries PA compatibility application and will not be migrated to native mode IA.

Others: Compressed Crash Dump, IPv6, WBEM, OLAR improvements, MxN thread support, lazy loading, Adaptive Address Space (SAS) to ease porting to HP-UX. and more.


Rgds...Geoff
Proverbs 3:5,6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make all your paths straight.
Honored Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

One thing I've found is that while 11.00 is still supported, you're more likely to get a quick turnaround on a patch for 11.11.

That's a simple matter of economics for HP since there are more people on the 11.11 platform than there is on 11.00 at this point.

The other big changes at 11.11 are the ability to use vxvm in a more integrated way with the system.

"Well, actually, she is a rocket scientist" -- Steve Martin in "Roxanne"
Honored Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

The most important changes between 11.0 and 11i are the additions of nPar and vPar Technology, as well as support for 875MHz+ CPUs.

Josh
What are the chances...
Super Advisor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

I have a silly question, What is their reason for not wanting to put a new system with the later O/S. The only reason I can think of, is that her application is only certified under 11 and not 11.11? If this is her reason, she needs to get after her vendor to certify that the application will run on it. Years ago an application I was running required me to upgrade to take advantage of something on 11i. I upgraded, and it (excuse my English) sucked. I have months of problems, I finally had to do a full reinstall, which went fine, but caused me some stress. She now has time to test the new OS on a new machine, a luxery she may not have in the near future.
Hustle Makes things happen
Honored Contributor

Re: Differences betw. 11i and 11.00 and demise of support for 11.00

In all the praise for 11.11 (11i) I'd like to add two advantages of 11.00

1. It is much easier to port GNU applications and utilities to 11.00 than it is to port to 11i
2. Also hits back on 1. The new compilers you get with 11.11 are far more strict than the one you get on 11.00

For building your own applications, these are only GOOD things, since you know that the compiler picks out all the nits you left in. The new compiler on 11.23 is excetionally good in detecting trouble.
But for GNU stuff, where the developers probably only use GNU gcc, you are bound to hit trouble, since these developers give a damn about strictness of compilers on HP-UX, Tru64 or AIX.

In our transit, we found no serious trouble for our own stuff, and some utils just need to be rebuilt for 11i (lsof is one serious candidate for recompilation, as is gcc itself). Other than that, .... my heart still is with 11.00, but I can give no real reasons for it.

For new systems, or hardware upgrades of (new) customers, I'd also say go for 11i. 11.00 does not receive any ExtSw patches, and *finding* a solution when you *do* hit trouble will be very hard indeed.

Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn [ still maintains a 10.20, just for my own OpenSource porting ]
Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn
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