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Procurve 2900 series vs 2920,2930 and other options for stacking (and non stacking) 7 switches?

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markm75
Advisor

Procurve 2900 series vs 2920,2930 and other options for stacking (and non stacking) 7 switches?

I have another general thread ongoing here but i had come to the conclusion for our business the best upgrade might be to go with 2900 series switches, stacked.. easier management etc..

But in digging, it sounds as if the stack would just be a virtual stack and may still be prone to cascading failures?

My other question is.. to link the 2900 series together, do i use a cx4 cable (or cx4 cable + transceiver) or another means?

With the 2900 series at least.. if one entire switch fails.. does connectivity keep going and if so how.. ie: if the failed switch had the only server connection going to it, wouldnt that server be inaccessible.. or does this require the server have multiple ports going out to multiple switches for redundancy.. this is what i was trying to avoid by going procurve?

Or.. is the only real solution to jump to a 2920 series ..

thanks in advance

19 REPLIES
parnassus
Honored Contributor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled?

Go with Aruba 2920 or 2930M Switch Series for backplane stacking (Stacking Modules/Cables), Aruba 2930F Switch Series for frontplane stacking (VSF Virtual Switching Framework)...that's if you plan to use ArubaOS-Switch based Switch Series (note that HP ProVision operating system of some existing HP ProCurve Switch Series has been rebranded with the new name ArubaOS-Switch).

OTOH you can try to follow another route: to deploy IRF (Intelligent Resilient Framework) using HPE Comware 5/7 based Switch Series instead of above mentioned Aruba Switch Series (note that IRF is available on "entry level" HPE OfficeConnect 1950 Switch Series).
markm75
Advisor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled?


parnassus wrote:
Go with Aruba 2920 or 2930M Switch Series for backplane stacking (Stacking Modules/Cables), Aruba 2930F Switch Series for frontplane stacking (VSF Virtual Switching Framework)...that's if you plan to use ArubaOS-Switch based Switch Series (note that HP ProVision operating system of some existing HP ProCurve Switch Series has been rebranded with the new name ArubaOS-Switch).

OTOH you can try to follow another route: to deploy IRF (Intelligent Resilient Framework) using HPE Comware 5/7 based Switch Series instead of above mentioned Aruba Switch Series (note that IRF is available on "entry level" HPE OfficeConnect 1950 Switch Series).

Not sure i completely followed some of that.. (not familiar with some of those terms just yet).. i can say that when i checked pricing on the 2920, even for refurbs.. it pushed us out of the ability to do that level of an upgrade.. i was only looking at $3000 for the 2900 with all its cables/transceivers needed total for 7 switches (48 ports each).. the 2920 make it more like $6000 plus cables.

parnassus
Honored Contributor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled?

Is HP ProCurve 2900 Switch Series still supported? I ask because latest available Firmware is 3 Years old...2014.

2900 is not comparable with 2920 (and viceversa) just because its name starts with "29"...they're totally different product series with totally different lifespan, features, development, options and prices (2920 is basically new - still in development - and probably refurbished units have still high values compared to residual value of refurbished 2900).
markm75
Advisor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled?


parnassus wrote:
Is HP ProCurve 2900 Switch Series still supported? I ask because latest available Firmware is 3 Years old...2014.

2900 is not comparable with 2920 (and viceversa) just because its name starts with "29"...they're totally different product series with totally different lifespan, features, development, options and prices (2920 is basically new - still in development - and probably refurbished units have still high values compared to residual value of refurbished 2900).

Yeah I have moved on from thinking about a 2900.. I'm trying to grasp the features of the 2920 though (and maybe in comparison with the sg500 cisco vs cisco 2960-x).. i guess the cisco 500 is limited to 6 in a stack, whereas the more expensive 2960 is limited to 9 (we need likely 7-9), 7 for now..

Is there limitations on the 2920 48 port switch like this.. to the number strung together in one stack.

What do you do when beyond this.. just link one stack to the other i assume and link via the web config in some way?

markm75
Advisor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled?

I came across this graphic, unsure if its accurate or not.. for some reason it lists the hp 2920 as virtual stacking?

justinnoonan
Occasional Visitor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled?

Hi markm75, 

The Aruba 2920 switch series stacks up to 4 switches using dedicated backplane stacking hardware and cables, similar to the Cisco 2960-X.  

The Aruba 2930F, released last year, comes in 24 and 48 port models (POE and non-POE) as well as an 8 port POE model.  The 2930F Switch Series uses our frontplane stacking technology called Virtual Switching Framework (VSF), with that, we can stack up to 4 members.

The newly released Aruba 2930M (last month),  uses dedicated backplane stacking, similar to the 2920, and can stack up to 10 members. 

Here are the datasheets for the 3 platforms:

http://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/ds/DS_2920SwitchSeries.pdf

http://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/ds/DS_2930FSwitchSeries.pdf

http://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/ds/DS_2930MSwitchSeries.pdf

It is extremely simple to setup stacking on our switches.

Hope this helps.

Regards, 

Justin

JUSTIN NOONAN
TECHNICAL MARKETING ENGINEER – ARUBA CAMPUS TECHNOLOGIES
O: +1 916 540 1748   |   justin.noonan@hpe.com

8000 FOOTHILLS BLVD  |  ROSEVILLE, CA 95747 USA

Vince-Whirlwind
Honored Contributor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled?

The lesson there is you can't trust Cisco sales brochure misinformation.

I saw a similarly misleading Cisco comparison of their 4500 with the HP 5400.

This is what Cisco are reduced to as a result of people blessed with sense realising that almost any other vendor is a better value option.

markm75
Advisor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled?

Is there a major benefit to going from the 2920 to 2930f or m series? are the 30s considered truly stacking as well. So server A connected to switch 1 of 7, switch 1 dies server A still has connectivity? Do the 30s require the additional stacking cards? It's not obvious to me in the pdfs
parnassus
Honored Contributor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled?

Aruba 2920, 2930F and 2930M are all truly stackable (forming a virtual switch): Aruba 2920 and 2930M use backplane stacking technology (so stacking is deployed through special Hardware stacking modules and stacking cables), Aruba 2930F instead uses frontplane stacking technology like the modular switch Aruba 5400R zl2 (so the stacking is deployed through software via the VSF feature using 1G/10G ethernet ports with normal cabling).

Server A must be connected via Port Trunking (possibly using LACP) to all stack's members concurrently to ensure that in case of any stack member goes down (considering stack is deployed using the resilient ring topology) its connectivity against the stack (so against remaining members) is granted...that's the dual/multi homing.
markm75
Advisor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled?

I thought the major advantage over say the older 2900 with virtual stacking was that with true stacking you wouldn't need to multi home each server to every switch. Unsure I see the difference, I guess performance.
parnassus
Honored Contributor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled?

I'm totally at lost with your line of reasoning (especially when you compare new Aruba Switch Series with the old HP ProCurve 2900): I *suspect* you're confusing the general feature of Management Stacking (probably available on old HP ProCurve 2900 like in many others) with Virtual Switching (again, deployed in two flavours: frontplane stacking versus backplane stacking implementation), there is no reason to refer or compare to old HP ProCurve 2900 every time you cross the word stacking or stack if *here* in this thread we are speaking about Virtual Switching (so a way to form a real virtual switch, a single logical entity, by stacking its members together in a way or another) and not Management Stacking [*].

Hope not to be wrong in interpreting what are your doubts.

Forget about HP ProCurve 2900.

With Virtual Switch you *should* multi home your Servers so you will protect their connectivity against any stack member fault.

[*] A side note: once you have a Virtual Switch set up and running, management is performed against the logical entity...from there you can control the whole stack that appears as a "big" omogeneous switch.

markm75
Advisor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled? 2920 and newer


parnassus wrote:

I'm totally at lost with your line of reasoning (especially when you compare new Aruba Switch Series with the old HP ProCurve 2900): I *suspect* you're confusing the general feature of Management Stacking (probably available on old HP ProCurve 2900 like in many others) with Virtual Switching (again, deployed in two flavours: frontplane stacking versus backplane stacking implementation), there is no reason to refer or compare to old HP ProCurve 2900 every time you cross the word stacking or stack if *here* in this thread we are speaking about Virtual Switching (so a way to form a real virtual switch, a single logical entity, by stacking its members together in a way or another) and not Management Stacking [*].

Hope not to be wrong in interpreting what are your doubts.

Forget about HP ProCurve 2900.

With Virtual Switch you *should* multi home your Servers so you will protect their connectivity against any stack member fault.

[*] A side note: once you have a Virtual Switch set up and running, management is performed against the logical entity...from there you can control the whole stack that appears as a "big" omogeneous switch.


Yes thanks.. sorry i was just double checking on things.  I understand the general principal here.. i was just confused as to what the older tech did vs the newer (more curiousity).

I've pretty much settled on getting refurbished 2920's for our office.. at least a stack of 4 of them as an entity.. then the other 3 tied into it.. 5 of 7 are regular, while 2 will need to be POE for our phones.  I feel that limiting it to 4 in the stack for now, should save around $240 x 3 for the stacking cards.  Models J9729A poe and J9728A non poe.  Pricing is about 1160 for the poe and $793 for the non POE refurbished

I believe the stacking module is the J9733A for around $220 (needing 4, for the 4 stack plus 4 cables J9734A 0.5m or a 3 foot version for the ring setup? unsure what the link rate is considered here?)

I guess from a logistics standpoint now, i need to decide what the best approach is here..

With 192 workstation drops, maybe 50-75 hardware/server drops and needing 72 of these POE.. if the 4 stack plus 3 routed into the main core makes sense.. then the 3 into the core (star) would obviously have no redundancy for now at least.  I'm guessing for the 4 in the stack i'd put the 2 POE switches and 2 regular covering all workstations/phones.

I was considering the 2930M as well, but the cost seems too high (no refurb options).

 

Is there maybe a layer2 hp switch i could use for these satellite 3 switches instead of the 2920 to save cost but keep things in the same ballpark spec/brand wise?

 **edit, actually, in seeing the JL254A 2930F, appears can be had for $995 and requires no stackable cards, i'm not positive if this model has the 1gb uplink or 10 etc for the stacking ability? (may be cheaper to go this route?), and appears $1500 for the POE version JL262A?  (actually it ends up the 2930F combo is around $800 more than going with 2920s but they could all be put into two stacks from the start, though this is similar to just buying 3 more stacking cards for the 2920 from the start)

 

 

 

parnassus
Honored Contributor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled? 2920 and newer

I suggest you to read HP 2920 stacking guide (I'll provide you the link), you will find it interesting.

Have you considered to move to a modular approach with one (or two, if you like the idea of frontplane stacking via VSF of two switches) Aruba 5400R zl2 plus v3 Modules? it would be nice altough it's expensive.

Another way would be to consider IRF using HPE Comware based switches.
markm75
Advisor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled? 2920 and newer


parnassus wrote:
I suggest you to read HP 2920 stacking guide (I'll provide you the link), you will find it interesting.

Have you considered to move to a modular approach with one (or two, if you like the idea of frontplane stacking via VSF of two switches) Aruba 5400R zl2 plus v3 Modules? it would be nice altough it's expensive.

Another way would be to consider IRF using HPE Comware based switches.

Are you suggesting the aruba 5406 switch as an alternative solution or maybe one to use in conjunction with the 2920 series that i'd stack (the 4 in stack) and make the 5406 the other 3?  They seem to run around $1500  Edit: looks like one unit of these has a ton of ports compared to a single 2920, which may be a big bonus (or drawback depending)  **is that 144 ports out of the box or do you add "modules" to it to achieve this?  It also appears it has multiple PSUs for redundancy?

I'm not opposed to either tech as long as it allows for a stack at least with 4 of the 7 switches (or groups of 2 i guess).

Also, what is meant by hitless failover exactly, is it a means to avoid multiple connections to multiple switches from servers with previously mentioned multi-homing for redundancy or some other fail protection?

markm75
Advisor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled? 2920,2930 etc?

I think i pretty much have narrowed the field down and now have an understanding on each switch, at least generically.. this is what i was after more or less... the only exception is the 5406R, unsure if that already has all ports (144) installed or not..  From what i read, you can add/remove switches from a stack in any of these without taking down the whole stack.. now its a question of if i stack 4 together, is there a lesser model not mentioned here that i can connect into the switch to act as a star configuration vlan connection for say servers (3 other switches not stacked) or is it best to just use a non stacked version of the same model (unless the 2930F then i can stack those without incurring extra stacking module cost)..

Here is my summary as of now , unsure how trustworthy the refurbs will be, but our overall budget is maxed at 7.5k or so to replace all existing 7 switches (2 poe) with its 192 workstation ports and roughly 75-100 miscellaneous/server ports as well.

HP 2920:
(J9729A 48 port POE version and J9728A 48 port regular)

-Throughput 130.9 Mpps ( same as the forwarding spec on the dell)
-can stack 4 in a group
-SFP stacking modules needed, price around $220 refurb, each one 10 Gbps, with 4 switches the whole set is at 40 Gbps
-512MB memory
-flash 1GB
-Tri Core ARM1176 @ 625 MHz
-layer3
*stacking module J9733A $220
-Pricing: POE+: $1160 refurb Non-POE: $793 refurb (unsure on retailer warranty, 30 days)

HP 2930F
(48 port POE JL262A, 48 port regular? L254A)

-can stack 4 in a group (software stacking, not hardware like the 2920 and 2930M)
-front plane stacking, uses standard cables, limited to the uplink speed of the model you buy, cant change (1gb, 10gb, *?or 40?)
-layer3
Price: $995 new non pe ?? $1500 POE new?

HP 2930M
(JL322A 48 port POE or JL321A 48 port regular)
-can stack 9 in a group
-stacking modules needed JL325A each at 10 Gbps, price $795 (new, no refurbs out there), puts this model out of our price range
-uplinks max of 40 Gbe
-optional dual power supply
-1GB memory
-4GB emmc
-Dual COre ARM 1016 MHz
-layer3
-Pricing: $4221 POE (out of the range for us), $4195 non POE

hp 5406R might be another alternative which appears to come more modular with tons of ports..
$1500

parnassus
Honored Contributor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled? 2920,2930 etc?


markm75 wrote:

... the only exception is the 5406R, unsure if that already has all ports (144) installed or not..

Pay attention that Aruba 5400R zl2 Switch Series is a modular chassis that requires at least one Management Module (MM) and offers 6 (Aruba 5406R zl2) or 12 (Aruba 5412R zl2) free slots; you can then add supported modules with the pattern you like (always refer to latest Aruba 5400R zl2 QuickSpecs and Manuals to understand main guidelines and restrictions about deploying various modules).

Probably refurbished units you found have chassis already populated in various ways (again: pay attention to Module's version to understand if you are buying older V2 zl modules instead of newer V3 zl2 modules <- that impacts against VSF deployment on Aruba 5400R zl2 see [*], [**] and [***] or consider that, if you plan to go with 2 Aruba 5400R zl2 in VSF as your new modular Core, then purchasing them refurbished already equipped with, each one, dual MM - a thing totally possible - looks good but, from the point of view of VSF implementation, is not useful at all...on the contrary...since VSF doesn't support dual MM the second MM on each Aruba 5400R zl2 must be disabled).

[*] Aruba 5400R zl2 V2 zl Modules to V3 zl2 Modules Technical Whitepaper

[**] HP 5400R zl2 Switch Series FAQs

[***] Aruba Virtual Switching Framework (VSF) Guide

markm75
Advisor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled? 2920,2930 etc?


parnassus wrote:

markm75 wrote:

... the only exception is the 5406R, unsure if that already has all ports (144) installed or not..

Pay attention that Aruba 5400R zl2 Switch Series is a modular chassis that requires at least one Management Module (MM) and offers 6 (Aruba 5406R zl2) or 12 (Aruba 5412R zl2) free slots; you can then add supported modules with the pattern you like (always refer to latest Aruba 5400R zl2 QuickSpecs and Manuals to understand main guidelines and restrictions about deploying various modules).

Probably refurbished units you found have chassis already populated in various ways (again: pay attention to Module's version to understand if you are buying older V2 zl modules instead of newer V3 zl2 modules <- that impacts against VSF deployment on Aruba 5400R zl2 see [*], [**] and [***] or consider that, if you plan to go with 2 Aruba 5400R zl2 in VSF as your new modular Core, then purchasing them refurbished already equipped with, each one, dual MM - a thing totally possible - looks good but, from the point of view of VSF implementation, is not useful at all...on the contrary...since VSF doesn't support dual MM the second MM on each Aruba 5400R zl2 must be disabled).

[*] Aruba 5400R zl2 V2 zl Modules to V3 zl2 Modules Technical Whitepaper

[**] HP 5400R zl2 Switch Series FAQs

[***] Aruba Virtual Switching Framework (VSF) Guide


Noted.. i guess ill have to dig deeper on that to be certain.

I guess my other question on refurbs too, is.. Is it required by HP to buy "certified" refurbished products to be able to purchase support contracts.. ie: 3rd party sites like this often dont list certified.. i'm assuming a support contract would be out of the question and if so.. what support if any do you get, aside from product failure life time warranty?

markm75
Advisor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled? 2920,2930 etc?

Spoke to CDW reps today..

They recommended going with 2530's as the other "three" switches that arent stacked (unless i decide i want to stack them later, in which case they need be 2920s).. downside is that they are limited to 1gb uplinks i think (maybe ok, unsure)..
Alternatively I could go with a 2540 which supports 10gbit..

so it would become 2920's x 4 in a core stacked and then two 2530 POE + one 2530 non poe to fill the need.. I may also be able to knock one switch off this list bringing it to 6 total needed (4 + 2).

edit: not sure why he said the 2930's couldnt do 10gbit, seems there is an optional module or similar for these too

Appears you can stack a 2930 virtually, at least to manage all 3 or 2 of these in one ip address, which is nice (not 100% sure on that)
I'm not sure why the rep didnt say the 2930 could do 10gb uplinks, appears it can?

HP 2530
**optional 10gb models or modules? (SFP+)
-382 watt power
-can stack virtually
J9855A 48 port NON POE + 2SFP+ (avg price new is $945?)
J9853A 48 port POE+ 2SFP+ (avg price new is $1500?)

J9781A 48 port NON POE, 1gbit uplink? (avg price new is $799)
J9778A 48 port POE+, 1gbit uplink? (avg price new is $1500)

HP 2540
-listed as "ioT ready, cloud manageable"
-virtual stack ability?
JL355A 48 port 4SFP+ (avg price new is $2300?)
JL357A 48 port POE 4SFP+ 370 watt (avg price new is $2800?)

parnassus
Honored Contributor

Re: Procurve 2900 series and stacking / management.. failures and how it is handled? 2920,2930 etc?

Aruba 2530 Switch Series (AKA HP ProCurve 2530) supports 10Gbps interfaces via (optional) additional SFP+ Transceivers, at least on two (2 ports-) SFP+ enabled specific models:

  • Aruba 2530 48G 2 SFP+ Switch (J9855A)
  • Aruba 2530 24G 2 SFP+ Switch (J9856A)

Aruba 2540 Switch Series supports 10Gbps interfaces too, via (optional) additional SFP+ Transceivers slots (4 SFP+ ports).

Same is somewhat valid for Aruba 2930F (models with SFP+) and Aruba 2930M (Slot on the Switch back for optional additional Modules)