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SA-P400 NCQ Support

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nomadsole
Advisor

SA-P400 NCQ Support

I have a SA-P400 with hardware Rev B / firmware 4.12. However ADU shows "SATA NCQ Supported: FALSE". Do I need a later hardware rev to get NCQ work? What rev do I need?
18 REPLIES
KarloChacon
Honored Contributor
Solution

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

hi
for this feature both HDDs and controller must support NCQ.

Also not all the P400 Controllers support that.

do you have controller spare part number/option part/model number as well as for HDDs?

I mean if you have a controller from january 2007 that wont support NCQ even if the controller have the latest firmware do you know when you bought that controller?

NCQ is supported in P400 since 4.06 firmware
4.06 (27 Jul 2007)

regards
Didn't your momma teach you to say thanks!
nomadsole
Advisor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

Thank Karlo

I am pretty sure the HDDs are supported because they are 500G SATA II drives.

The P400 with 512M BBC came with a DL585 G2 last month. It was then put into a ML350 G4p with 6 internal SATA II 500G drives attached.

I don't know when this controller was manufactured, as I can't find any dates on it. However the battery has "12/06" on it.

Also, I found the following numbers on the controller.

SP#: 405832-001
DG#: 012472-000
PA5360J9SU5034
AS#: 012760-002
REV: 0J

In the case that it is because of the hardware itself, can we ask HP to replace it with a newer model that supports NCQ. How could they put an old P400 in a brand new server?

Regards
nomadsole
Advisor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

Sorry array serial (AS) # should be PA5360J9SU50J4
KarloChacon
Honored Contributor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

hi

This number SP#: 405832-001 indicates your controller has support for NCQ however check physically again the controller and if you find this "printed circuit assembly (PCA) number 013159-002" your controller must support NCQ

now let's go with HDD

Can you verify if your 500 GB HDDs are either
404654-002 or 395501-002 spare number?

now verifying something else
and also can you verify the Firmware version.
you can check this in System Management Homepage - SMHP(try to have latest Proliant Support Pack which includes latest SMHP and agents)
Go to:
Home-> Storage -> Controller, p400 - Select a HDD and check these two values:
- Firmware version
- NCQ Support

and let me know this information.

Didn't your momma teach you to say thanks!
nomadsole
Advisor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

Thanks a lot. Karlo. I will let you know once I have the information.

But here is some information I found on HP PartSurfer (partsurfer.hp.com) for part number 405832-001

405832-001 Serial Attached SCSI (SAS) Smart Array i400
controller
REQUIRES RETURN OF DEFECTIVE PART

405832-001N New part for 405832-001


Does this means the P400 model I have is a defective part and
needs to be returned and replaced?
KarloChacon
Honored Contributor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

no

I don't think so

see what I found nothing related with what you posted kind of weird right?

http://partsurfer.hp.com/cgi-bin/spi/main?sel_flg=partinfo&template=main&cpric=&psrchmode=&partsrch=405832-001&submit.x=12&submit.y=8

regards
Didn't your momma teach you to say thanks!
nomadsole
Advisor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

If you scroll down a little bit, on the HP Smart Array P400 SAS Controller row, click either 405132-B21 or 411064-B21. You will get what I have. See link below

http://partsurfer.hp.com/cgi-bin/spi/main?sel_flg=partpic&pic_flg=part&stype=W&partnum=405832-001&HP_model=405132-B21&model=&whichpic=%3F&template=main

I found te PCB NO on the back of the controller is 012473-001 A/W REV A FAB REV A, which is different than the one you mentioned.

I am now checking the SMS and the HDD part.

Thanks
nomadsole
Advisor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

Sorry for late reply. Here is the things I found from SMHP

Model: Maxtor 6H500F0
Firmware Version: HA431DD0
Placement: Internal
Drive Type: Serial ATA
Negotiated Link Rate: 1.5 Gbps
NCQ Support: No Controller Support

The HDDs are 395473-B21.

It seems to be clear now that it is because of the controller. If it is the case, can I ask HP to replace it with a new model that supports NCQ?
KarloChacon
Honored Contributor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

hi

yes I found something else NCQ is supported for controllers since September 5, 2007, so what I thinking here is HP did not ship a NCQ controller for your server. It means if you bought a controller after that date and it does not support NCQ ask for a replacement

and something else even your HDDs are 500 GB but it does not mean that they support NCQ.

are those HDDs spare part number: 395501-002??

regards
Didn't your momma teach you to say thanks!
nomadsole
Advisor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

Hi Karlo

I found this list for all HP HDDs with model#, sp#, f/w version, etc.

My HDD has a spare part #395501-001, which means it does not supported NCQ.

I think it is all about the firmware. I mean as long as the firmware of the HDD is HPGx, it supports NCQ. Unfortunately, there is no such firmware available for my drives.

I've logged a support case yesterday. The engineer of HP GSC believes the controller is NCQ-capable. It is all because of my HDDs.

I was told if I buy a NCQ-capable HP HDD and find out NCQ is still not supported. I will be eligible for replacement of the controller.

However I believe the controller should be replaced anyway whether or not I use NCQ, because the server was purchased last month and the controller should be NCQ-capable.

Regards
nomadsole
Advisor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

Hi Karlo

I found this list for all HP HDDs with model#, sp#, f/w version, etc.

My HDD has a spare part #395501-001, which means it does not supported NCQ.

I think it is all about the firmware. I mean as long as the firmware of the HDD is HPGx, it supports NCQ. Unfortunately, there is no such firmware available for my drives.

I've logged a support case yesterday. The engineer of HP GSC believes the controller is NCQ-capable. It is all because of my HDDs.

I was told if I buy a NCQ-capable HP HDD and find out NCQ is still not supported. I will be eligible for replacement of the controller.

However I believe the controller should be replaced anyway whether or not I use NCQ, because the server was purchased last month and the controller should be NCQ-capable.

Regards
nomadsole
Advisor
KarloChacon
Honored Contributor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

hi

that's correct it is firmware(HPGx) but that firmware is only for those -002 HDDs there is no firmware to update those HDDs the -002 identifies HDD capable of NCQ

so as well if you bought those HDDs on or after 5 September ask for replacement as well

so at this point I would say of you bought both after that day you are ineligible for a controller and HDDs replacement

something else

No Controller Support means that Controller does not support NCQ.

No Drive Support means that Controller supports NCQ, but the drives don't.

that's why both have to be replaced

regards
Didn't your momma teach you to say thanks!
nomadsole
Advisor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

Thanks a lot.

The drives were actually bought before the NCQ announcement. The controller came with a DL585 G2 last month.

I will ask HP to replace my controller before I buy new HDDs. Otherwise I won't be able to justify the cost.

Btw, do you know the actually manufacturer for these HP drives. I know those models like STxxxxx are made by Seagate, WDxxxx are made by Western Digital, 6Hxxxx and 6Lxxxx are all Maxtor. But what about GBxxxx, DFxxxx, DGxxxx?

regards
nomadsole
Advisor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

Well. HP has replaced my controller, now NCQ is supported. Here are the facts I found. Hope this is helpful to anyone who want to attach NCQ capable SATA drives with SA-P400.

1. SA-P400 Hardware. It must be a controller that made after the HP NCQ announcement, which is around Sept 2007. My new P400 has a hardware rev D. Previous one is B. NCQ-capable and non NCQ-capable P400 are physically different.

2. Backplane. It is said that the backplane must support this configuration. I believe most HP SAS backplane for 3.5in HDDs will be fine. Although I have backplane for 2.5in in SAS drives, I don't have a 2.5in SATA II drive for testing.

3. Hard disk drive. It is not neccessarily to be a HP HDD. However it has to be a NCQ-capable HDD. NCQ is not a new stuff, (but new to HP SA controllers). Almost all SATA II drives today support NCQ. Since I've sent my 500 HDDs to the reseller for replacement, I put in 6 320G Seagate 7200.10 HDDs. It works very well. It proved that new SA-P400 supports all NCQ drives. Nothing to do with the HDD firmware. It is all about the physical circuit.

4. Firmware of SA-P400. Must be 4.06 or later.

5. SA-P400 driver. I don't recall the exact version number, but one of the fixes/enhancements made to the driver, ADC, and ACU last year around June/July 2007 mentioned the addition of NCQ status.

6. Identify. To identify if the controller supports NCQ, check ADU->Controller->Identification->NCQ: (Supported / Not Supported). To identify if a HDD supports NCQ, check ADU->Physical Drive Identification->NCQ is supported, NCQ is enabled. You can also find information in System Management Homepage, it will show NCQ Support: No Controller Support/No Drive Support/Enabled

7. HP provides replacement of SA-P400 per customer basis.

8. SATA vs SAS and Why NCQ?
a) SATA HDDs are far cheaper than SAS HDDs with much larger capacities.
b) SAS HDDs have higher rpm than SATA HDDs, and have much higher throughput than HDDs. However, the throughput can be compensated using more drives in a raid array.
c) SAS HDDs are more reliable. Well, they are. But recent SATA drives are reliable enough with RAID 5/6.
d) Concurrency. SAS drives has better concurrency than SATA drives. TCQ (queue depth 64) is implemented in SAS drives to support simultaneous multi-target access. However with NCQ (queue depth 32) offering pretty much the same functionality, the difference is getting closer.

NCQ is very important if you use SATA drives in a centralised storage enviornment, such as IP SAN.

When multiple instances access the array at the same, the performance difference between NCQ and non NCQ drives is obvious.

9. We are using HP gears and SAS drives in our production environment to support some performance critical applications in our IP SAN and virtual infrastructure. We use SATA drives for development and testing environment, and for storage of massive production data.
nomadsole
Advisor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

One thing forgot. Negotiated Interface rate for SATA drives attached with SA-P400 (NCQ Capable) remains 1.5Gb/s. SAS HDDs are 3.0Gb/s.
KarloChacon
Honored Contributor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

hi

sorry I did not answer your previous questions

I've been to busy.
I really dont know who is the manufacture

by the way very good documentation

regards
Didn't your momma teach you to say thanks!
beovax
Advisor

Re: SA-P400 NCQ Support

excellent - just what I have been looking for. I have run the ADU and NCQ is uspported on the controller and the disks say that NCQ is enabled. Does this mean that it is using NCQ?

All the quick specs say you need to enable it (as in it is not enabled by default)

Cheers