What's the story wrt the new Smart Arrays -- P430/P430i/P431/P830 ?

[anthony11]

I'm starting to see references to these but few details.  Are these 12Gb/s SAS or something?  Embedded on the new E5 Xeon v2 systems?

[d3vnul]

I cannot see anything interesting about it , doesn't seem to be 12Gb/s:

http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/productbulletin.html#spectype=north_america&type=html&docid=14624

[anthony11]

I have since seen a claim that the new-gen cards are "30% faster".  They seem to use a different, smaller connector type with faster memory:

http://h20195.www2.hp.com/V2/GetPDF.aspx%2F4AA2-4101ENW.pdf

Notable is that the RAID level, expansion, etc. features no longer require an SAAP license, they're standard.  An existing SAAP 2.0 key gets one SmartCache on them.

I still haven't found anything on the P830/P830i/P831 yet other than references in firmware/software release notes.  Presumably one replaces the P822?

[anthony11]

I found more:

http://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHEA-2013-1130.html  has the below text, referencing these models.  Notable is that the P430/431 appear to have available 4GB cache models.

ML350p Gen8 Plus, DL360p Gen8 Plus
DL380p Gen8 Plus, BL460 Gen8 Plus
SL230 Gen8 Plus, SL250 Gen8 Plus
SL270 Gen8 Plus, DL160 Gen8 Plus

1928103C | HP Smart Array P230i SAS Controller 1i x4 mini SAS for BladeSystem
1920103C | HP Smart Array P430i SAS Controller 1i x8 mini SAS
1922103C | HP Smart Array P430 2/4GB SAS Controller 1i x8 mini SAS
1923103C | HP Smart Array P431 2/4GB SAS Controller 2e x4 HD SAS
1926103C | HP Smart Array P731m 512MB/2GB SAS Controller for BladeSystem c-Class
1921103C | HP Smart Array P830i SAS Controller 2i x8 mini SAS Snap 6 (DL580)
1924103C | HP Smart Array P830 4GB SAS Controller 2i x8 ,mini SAS
1925103C | HP Smart Array P831 4GB SAS Controller 4e x4 HDSAS

From the above one might speculate that "Gen8 Plus" refers to systems with the new E5 v2 Xeons (which will ship ... when??) but HP seems to show systems still using eg an onboard P420i.  Perhaps when these actually ship they will in fact have the above new HBA onboard?

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/products/proliant-servers/product-detail.html?oid=5177957#!tab=models

The P830i line above makes me wonder if a DL580 G8 might finally be making an appearance, to join the DL560 G8.

[Casper42]

Smart Arrays use the following naming context.

PABCx

P = Proper Smart Array, not Software based RAID

A = The ROC Size.  So a 2xx is the low end model, 4xx mid range, 7xx is Blade/High end and 8xx is high end.  An 8xx card literally has more processor power in the RAID engine than the 4xx cards.

B = The Generation.  So the Cards you are asking about are based on the next gen Smart Array that will replace the x2x family.

C = The specific model.  This usually has to do with number of internal vs external ports.

x = Specialty label.  i = On-Board, m = Mezzanine (Blade)

The Rackmount cards do in fact use a new SAS connector with some higher bandwidth capabilities.

Though I cannot officially comment on 12Gb support :)

The new connectors are almost square and 1 square means 4 lanes and 2 squares means 8 lanes.

The new MSA 2040 SAS model uses the same connector for host connections.

The DL580 family has historically been based on the Xeon EX series of chips.

So whereas the Ivy Bridge EP chips just launched in Sept, Google will tell you the Ivy Bridge EX chips are not out yet and there was no Sandy Bridge EX.

If you were to find an approximate release date of the Ivy Bridge EX processors, you might hazard a guess as to when a DL580 Gen8 would appear, being there is not one currently.

And it would make sense that any NEW ProLiant models (not just processor refreshes) would get the latest and greatet Smart Array, no?

But I can tell you the Gen8 Plus was an early concept that was scrapped.

Ivy Bridge EP procs are already out, so if there was going to be a DL380p Gen8 Plus, you would have heard about it by now.

Lastly, there is also another feature these cards have that doesn't seem to have leaked (like the Gen8 Plus).  You will just have to keep your eyes and ears peeled for that one.

[352x416]

I think the square SAS connector is Mini SAS HD, and can run SAS 3 at 12Gb/s.

The new RAID controllers are PCIe3 8lane, should be lots of bandwidth.

Previous generation RAID controllers in DAS models of various brands were PCIe2 4 lane. Bandwidth should have increased a lot in the new models.

The HP MSA2040 from what I can tell is the first SAN/DAS to run 12Gb/s controllers. I checked the spec sheet, the dual SAS controller model running at 6Gb/s beat the 16Gb/s FC in everyway except sequential read/write. If the workload is database with predominantly random IO SAS, would be the winner. I assume if HP was to give the performance of the 2040 using 12Gb/s it would beat the FC model in sequential IO as well.

Is the

[352x416]

Is the surprise that is can do 12Gb/s? Because I won't be surprised.

[anthony11]

Casper:  wow, good info.  Thanks!  Some of the naming convention had been obvious to me, the *i for example but some of the detail wasn't.  Back in the G6/G7 days I asked through other channels about the p8xx vs the p4xx and had been told that they used the same processors, but I trust  your info more.  Sounds like these will be in G9 systems, which no doubt will come out right after I buy a few more dozen G8's.  But aside from a few disturbing instances of systems suddenly refusing to power up and requiring a new system board I mostly like the G8's so that won't be a big deal.

I keep forgetting that the 4-socket systems take different CPU's as we only have three of them, which were spec'd and purchased before I took on that responsibility.

The G8 cards already do 3-way mirrors (which I like to think I had something to do with) so I'll be looking to see what new feature the new ones have, aside from SAAP being bundled.  AFAICT HP's G8 SA cards are the only ones out there that do 3-way mirrors, which to me is compelling for using HP gear. 

I had not come across the MSA 2040 SAS before but will look into it.  I'm currently spec'ing a server to run Symantec NBU and need to decide on storage.  We're planning to use a deduplication pool, and the access pattern for those differs a bunch I believe from the sequential we're used to, so I'm concerned about getting appropriate storage.  I had the sense in the past that the MSA's were oriented toward blade systems so I had not looked into them deeply.  All the storage systems, though, including the D2600/D2700 arrays AFAICT use the old-style disk carriers, so I've been wondering when storage using the G8-style carriers might enter the picture.

[Sbrown]

I run P420/1gb FBWC with hp SmartCache and smartpath in my $399 dual L5639 ebay specials.

The big problem with the P420 was heat. I would guess they reduced the heat big time with P430.

To compete with LSI - say the Dell H700/710/720 they have to give everything away.

I hate LSI megaraid !!!

In the DL180 G6 - you can rock emulex BE2 dual 10gbe, raid card(S), even a gpu all at once! !!

[Casper42]

New generation of high density disk is in the works, and I would assume they will use the new Gen8 carriers.
Those are quite a ways out though as far as I know.

The new MSA 2040 however still uses G7 style carriers


4-socket:
There are now 2 designs there from Intel.
EP4 (Xeon E5) is a "poor man's" 4 way box and uses the 2 QPI Links per CPU in a Square or Ring type design.
But if the CPUs in opposite corners need to talk, they have to go through one of the other adjacent processors to get there and that adds a bit of latency. A Decent NUMA aware App/OS however (VMware) makes this design constraint almost a non issue.
Now EX (Xeon E7) on the other hand uses higher end procs that have at least 3 QPI Links. This gives you a link to every other processor in a 4 way machine and reduces that extra hop latency. They are usually a bit behind when it comes to release dates, but they also have more cores and more cache (usually) than their E5 counterparts.

The P420 and its x2x brothers all get the SAAP 2.0 features. Just need to upgrade their Firmware to the 2013.09 SPP bundles version or newer.
Smart Cache however will require a Smart Cache or SAAP 2.0 License to enable still.


Gen9 would likley come when either AMD or Intel releases a new processor that is NOT socket compatible with the current motherboards out there.
Again, Google is your friend here but I can tell you you have at least a year more on Gen8 from what I have read online.

PS: If you have an HP Sales Rep and your company has an NDA on file, you can get all the future looking info from them directly.