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DD1/DD2 tape drives on HP-UX 9.05

Ed Mansky
Occasional Advisor

DD1/DD2 tape drives on HP-UX 9.05

Hi all,
I have old 60m and 90m DDS1 tapes and 120m DDS2 tapes that I made back in 1992-6 on an HP 9000/730 running HP-UX 9.05 using a DDS1 DAT tape drive -specifically the C2292T full-height drive that fit in the HP 6000 mini-tower.

I am trying to now read these tapes on a HP 9000/735 workstation with a DD2 tape drive (C1533) in another HP 6000 mini-tower. I can read the 60m and 90m tapes fine on this 735 system, which also is running 9.05.

However, I can't get the DD2 tape drive attached to the 735 to read any of the 120m DDS2 tapes. I get an error message from fbackup (using SAM) saying "Unable to read volume label, Unable to read volume header" with error codes of 5408, 5409.

When I bring up SAM and go to "Tape Drives", I get a warning message from SAM indicating that SAM cannot determine the exact type of tape drive that's attached. When I go to "Backup/Recovery" I see a "scsi tape drive" indicated on the SCSI address the DDS2 tape drive is connected to. That is a generic description instead of the expected detailed model no. description.

When I use ioscan, the tape drive status is "OK". I also checked the kernel under the "scsitape" driver, viewing more detail shows the tape driver "s2tape" is in the kernel with a description field "Old protocol SCSI tape driver".

Hence, I suspect the 9.05 put on the root disc by the re-seller doesn't have the patch(s) needed to fully define the DDS2 tape drives to the 9.05 system.

I know from my files of my old system (now gone) that when I got it in April 92 the only DDS drives that were supported were the full-height DDS1 drives. In late 92 the DDS2 drives were added via a patch if I remember correctly.

If I get a re-furbished C2292T tape drive from a re-seller and install it in my mini-tower, will that DAT drive be fully recognized by the 9.05 system and allow me to read these 120m tapes in it? How can I check which models of DAT drives my 9.05 kernel will recognize out-of-the-box?

I remember being puzzled back in 95-96 when I used the 120m tapes for backup on the full-height DDS1 tape drive since the matrix compatability chart indicated that the full-height drives shouldn't be able to read or write to 120m DDS2 tapes, yet mine seemed to work fine with them.

Any ideas, or suggestions, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Ed
10 REPLIES
OldSchool
Honored Contributor

Re: DD1/DD2 tape drives on HP-UX 9.05

i'm surprised that the original system would write on the 120m tape as well. I suspect that when it did, it actually wrote DDS-1 formatted data on a DDS-2 cassette.

if that is so, then the "media recognition system" is tripping you up, as it "knows" that's a DDS-2 tape and tries to read it as such.

if you were originally able to read and write it w/ the full height DDS-1 drive, it might be worth a shot to get one and try to read it that way. I've no proof that that will work however.

If you are able to read it, I'd get the information off the tape and transfer it to the proper media in a compatible drive so that this doesn't occur again

best of luck
Ken Martin_3
Regular Advisor

Re: DD1/DD2 tape drives on HP-UX 9.05


I am also suprised. I used to work on a 9000 that had a DDS-1 drive and it only supported 60m and 90m tapes.

As a test why don't you get a clean spare 120m and see if you can write to it.

If you can write to it eject and reinsert the tape and see if you can read it.

If you "can" read the test tape I suspect what you think is on those old tapes may not be.

If you "can't" (which I suspect) read or write a 120m test tape you may want to check the dip switch on the bottom of the drive for the "media recognition" setting.

Others may have better ideas for you.

Ken

Ed Mansky
Occasional Advisor

Re: DD1/DD2 tape drives on HP-UX 9.05

Thanks OldSchool and Ken Martin for the tips about getting an old DDS1 drive to test out and for trying the dip switch setting for Media Recognition System (MRS)(switch #3).

I tried setting switch #3 to the "ON" position, which should set the MRS to "off". Unfortunately, I still couldn't read the 120m tapes.

I think I can still get a C1536 DDS1 tape drive from a re-seller. Getting one that still works is the trick!

I don't have any more empty spare 120m tapes, I used all of them up in 1994-6. I was able to get off of eBay 5 new unopened 120m tapes exactly like the ones I am trying to read. A box of 5 for $10! I remember when the tapes were $17/each.

Anyway, once I get the new 120m tapes I'll try writing to them and then see if I can then read from them.

I do see some HP-UX files that were on my old system that the new system doesn't have.

The filesets SCSIDDS-DIAG and SCSIDSK2-DIAG are diagnostic programs for SCSI DDS tape drives and hard disk drives I believe. I don't think though that missing these filesets on the new system is my problem.

Thanks again for the help. I'll report back the results once I get the drive and tapes.

Ed
Ken Martin_3
Regular Advisor

Re: DD1/DD2 tape drives on HP-UX 9.05

Ed,

You could try:
http://www.compuvest.com/

and search for C1536

Compuvest has been around for awhile. I have no stake in the company.

Or do a search on eBay for C1536 there are many there any their variants.

If you just wanted one tape couldn't you get one from say Staples or Office Depot?

Ken
Ed Mansky
Occasional Advisor

Re: DD1/DD2 tape drives on HP-UX 9.05

UPDATE:

I was able to get my hands on some old, unused 120m DDS2 DAT tapes just like the ones I am trying to read. I was indeed able to write to the tape and then read from it using my DDS2 C1533 tape drive.

I also got my hands on a C1536 DDS1 tape drive. This drive simply ejects the DDS2 tape immediately upon insertion. I tried using config switch #3 to turn off MRS, but it still ejects the tape.

Finally, I found, on eBay, an old C1502A DDS tape drive that's full-height 5.25" form factor. Looks identical to the DAT tape drive I created the 120m tapes on back in 92-96. As best as I can tell, the C1502A was used on series 800 machines, while the C1503A and C2292T (among others) were in 700 series.

Anyway, the C1502A fits fine in my HP6000 mini-tower. However, the OS doesn't see any tape drive at all. I've been unable, via Google, to find any spec sheet, or user manual on the DDS tape drives specifically for the C1502A to tell me how to set the jumpers so that the tape drive will get it's SCSI address from the bus.

I have in the mini-tower, a 6-wire thin cable that attachs to the tape drive from the bus that is used for SCSI addressing. I am unsure how/where to attach this cable to the pins (on the side) of the C1502A.

Can anyone provide a link to the manual, or a jpg of the page, that describes these pins on the C1502A DDS DAT tape drive?

Any tips, or vague recollections of these old tape drives would be greatly appreciated!


Ed

ps. The C1502A has no config switches on the bottom of the drive (or anywhere else or that matter). Hence, as far as I can tell, no MRS settings. The front bezel also only has "DDS" not "DDS1" on it. This is exactly what I remember from my old tape drive. Hence, if these old C150x tape drives pre-date the MRS (when compared against the later C153x drives), this "may" explain how I was able to use DDS2 120m tapes in the DDS tape drive. I, of course, won't sure for sure until I can complete my testing.
Ken Martin_3
Regular Advisor

Re: DD1/DD2 tape drives on HP-UX 9.05


Ed,

C1502-69203 TAPE,1.3GB 4MM,5.25" FH,SE-SCSI
C1502A TAPE,1.3GB 4MM DDS,SE-SCSI

Check the following PDF file in section 6. There is mention of a C1502A drive. Once you being up the document search for C1502.

http://www.docs.hp.com/en/B2355-90675/B2355-90675.pdf

Watch the above link it wraps around.

The only other idea is if your 6 wire cable is two rows of three wires the three wires could indicate binary 0, 1 and 2. Or, device 0 to 7. On the drive near these pins there no markings at all like 0, 1 or 2?


-Ken
Ed Mansky
Occasional Advisor

Re: DD1/DD2 tape drives on HP-UX 9.05

Hi Ken,
Thanks for the link to the HP manual. Very helpful!

I looked more carefully at the C1502A tape drive and did indeed find a 6-pin SCSI address to the right of the 50-pin connector. The 6-pin section was recessed. The 6 pins are arranged in a 3X2 array with the labels above (right-->left) "2", "1", "0". To the immediate right of the 3X2 array of pins were two more pairs, labeled "P" and "T", which I think means "Power" and "Terminator". These latter two pairs both had jumpers on them. A jumper was also on the lower pin only of the two under the "2" label.

I then looked at the various small cables I have in my 2 mini-towers and I had a 6-wire cable arranged at the tape drive end in a 3X2 array with the correct spacing. I had another 6-wire with another 3X2 array but with a different spacing between pins. I suppose there are different spacings for the different models of tape drives.

In any event, upon plugging in the cable and rebooting, the OS now recognizes the tape drive, and displays it with a more descriptive label "1.3 GB DDS Tape Drive (DAT)" instead of "Generic Tape Drive". The drive status is "OK" and driver labeled "scsitape" which is correct for 9.05.

However, after putting in my cleaning cartridge to clean the drive, the tape was only partly ejected. Pulling it then broke the cleaning cartridge tape! Luckly I had not put any key old tapes in the drive yet.

I remember my old tape drive giving problems like this in 1995-6 (not fully ejecting tapes).

At least the OS now recognizes the drive and I get no warning message about an unrecognized tape drive. I will compare the device files on this copy of 9.05 with those I used on the old machine.

Do you think I should remove the device files for the tape drive and re-build them ?

I suspect the final issue for me to resolve is what device files were invoked on the old machine when the 120m tapes were written to, and can I duplicate them on this copy of 9.05.

Thanks for your help, it's very much appreciated!

Ed

ps. I also looked at my 730 running 10.10 and the tape drive there, also showed up in Sam as a "Generic tape drive". Upon changing the 6-wire (6X1 array) cable to be plugged in fully under the "P","T","2","1","0" labels and re-booting, the tape drive on the 10.10 OS now also shows up as a "C1533A 4 GB DDS Data Compression Tape Drive (DAT)" which it is. I also see two device files on the 10.10 system I never saw before: "AT&T DDS1 DAT tape cartridge" and "AT&T keep existing density/format". I suspect these show up when the MRS is turned off as it is for this drive (I flipped config switch #3 on the bottom of the drive).
Ken Martin_3
Regular Advisor

Re: DD1/DD2 tape drives on HP-UX 9.05

Ed,

I too had trouble in the past with old 1.3gb drives. You just had to be carefull when removing tapes. Sometimes caused by a dirty tape path (rollers, guides, etc) or just by a tape that was used beyond it's usefullness.

In most machines the last device on the SCSI daisy chain cable would have the terminator active 'T'. If your system already worked OK before installing the tape drive it's probably not an issue. As far as 'P' power that depends if the SCSI controller is supplying power to the SCSI bus. Again, if it already worked OK it's probably OK.

As for the jumper pin only on half of pin 2 and none on 1 or 0 that says the device is set as device 0. If pin 2 was fully jumpered then the tape device would be 4.

As far as DDS goes those old 1.3gb drives (I thought) only supported 60m tapes and there was no compression?

I can't explain the AT&T filenames.

-Ken
Ed Mansky
Occasional Advisor

Re: DD1/DD2 tape drives on HP-UX 9.05

Hi Ken,
The HP C1536 DDS1 tape drive I got from CompuVest, I put in my 730 running HP-UX 10.10 and it came up with the description field in Sam (under Perphieral Devices/Tape Drives) of "ARCHIVE Python 27871-XXX". No mention of HP C1536A-00480 or C1536A-66001 (stickers with each of these nos. are on the tape drive itself).

Then, when I go in Sam to Backup/Recovery, I get a message box within which is a message indicating a "Sam internel error" occurred. From Google, I put together that "ARCHIVE Python" in the description field is a tape drive made by Conner with model nos. in the 4000s. The no. 27871-XXX is the firmware revision no. and is probably an incorrectly coded firmware response to a low-level SCSI bus inquiry by the OS.

Did HP sell these Conner tape drives under their own label? And does the fact of my getting a Sam internal error indicate that the firmware on the drive needs to be updated? Or is the Sam internal error indicate a problem with the HP-UX 10.10 copy I have on that machine?

Even with the Sam internal error, the C1536 drive read a list of files on an old 60m tape just fine. It does not read a list of files on a 120m tape. I am wondering if that difference is due to firmware problems or OS problems.

Do you know a link to any service manuals for these tape drives (C1502A or C1536A)? I looked inside the C1502A full-height tape drive and it looks brand new, no dust of any kind like I have seen on tape drives used for any amount of time.

Do you know if the default SCSI id of the C1502A drive is "2"? I have tried setting the C1502A tape drive in a couple of different slots in the mini-tower, each w/SCSI id of "1", and the tape drive always has id of "2" regardless.

The jumper half-on the "2" pin of the C1502A I took off in order to plug in the 6-wire (3X2) cable for the SCSI address bus. I also found that the orientation of the 6-wire cable mattered a great deal. In one position the tape drive is fully recognized and Sam indicates it is a "1.3 Gb DDS tape drive (DAT)". In the other position (rotated 180 deg.), no tape drive is detected at all!

Should I not use the 6-wire cable at all? Should I rather use jumper settings to set the SCSI id, like is done with the hard drives in the mini-tower?

Ed

Ken Martin_3
Regular Advisor

Re: DD1/DD2 tape drives on HP-UX 9.05

Ed,

Yes you can use jumper pins instead of the SCSI ID cable if you wish. Just make sure no two devices have the same SCSI ID address.

You mention the HP saw it as a 1.3GB drive. That sounds OK.

You also said the C1536 could read 60m tapes OK but not 120m tapes.

It appears you have hit the compatibility barrier again with 60, 90 and 120m tapes.

Check out the following link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Data_Storage

It might help you.

-Ken