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Oracle stop development on itanium

 
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Honored Contributor

Re: Oracle stop development on itanium

1.) Be sure you are able to reproduce your issues ON a Phsyica Server. Or be ready to V2P.

2.) I don't know the current state of Oracle Licensing on a HyperVisored Server - it is likely licensed per physical node though

Overall -- Oracle on Linux is still considerably cheaper.
Hakuna Matata.

Re: Oracle stop development on itanium

Sorry, doesn't work for me... I have to keep another system around just to confirm issues on? That costs a bunch and will significantly slow down analysis... maybe your customers are less risk averse than mine, but there's just no way mine would go for that.

...and yes, Oracle _only_ recognise an x86 VM as a hard partition for licensing if you use OracleVM (i.e. give _all_ your money to Oracle!), so I have to license all the cores on my x86 server, whether I need them or not

- the (obvious) result of this is lots of smaller servers to run individual databases, which a) creates a management headache and b) isolates unused compute resource

so whilst I can see a strong case for what you discuss on a "per project" basis, when I think about this across my customer's multiple datacentres with Oracle instances measured in the hundreds, I can't see how this would stack up.

Duncan

I am an HPE Employee
Accept or Kudo
Honored Contributor

Re: Oracle stop development on itanium

conversation turned out to use oracle on linux or unix. partitioning is weak in x86 side and can be done with virtualisation. There is no hard partitioning or partitioning techniques without loss of cpu power, I/O latency, bandwith etc in x86 side.( i know some improvements in kvm side) i didn't try rdm but in integrity VM side, although availability of AVIO, when i tested, physical and disk given from AVIOA didn't give the same results.

We had also started to move linux side for some small databases. An because the penalty of oracle support, What we did is physical consolidation of databases on two active/passive linux nodes.
Computers have lots of memory but no imagination
Honored Contributor

Re: Oracle stop development on itanium

Dunc.. the "be ready to prove issue exists in a Physical Server" approach is just insurance sir - just in case Oracle support "insists" in trying to replicate the issue.. To tell you the truth - we've never been questioned by Oracle what virtualization layer we used -- Pls refer to the following URLs too:

http://www.vmware.com/solutions/partners/alliances/oracle-vmware-support.html
http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/oracle-support.html

I too was skeptical with the Linux "resource management philosophy" having been schooled in nPars and vPars (HP-UX) and Containers/Zones/Domains (Solaris) and their high avaialability suites. Hope your issues, skepticisms and doubts will be addressed as you continue your journey if you decide to or stay with the dinosaurs.

And as I have been espousing in the forums -- it's quite easy and CHEAP for fledgling Linux practitioners to dabble and wet their fingers in Linux HA and Virtualization. If you already own a dual or a quad core (heck even 6 core AMDs are cheap) - have suffcient RAM (mem's cheap too!) and Storage (need I say more?) - then build yourself your own Linux Vortualization lab and try varius Linux, Windows, appliance technologies as easy as 1 2 3. Dabble in NAS, HA CLustering - various LINUX Heads for NAS, Email Gateways, Firewalls, etc. And all are "FREE" -- for hypervisor -- you can opt for Linux's own -- KVM, or Vmware Server hosted on a Linux distro, or bare metal ESXi or Hosted Vortual Box.. heck even Hyper-V if you want to do the 2008R2 test drive.

What I am saying is it is SOOOO easy for systems people to keep up and keep abreast with today's open technologies -- and that's what's killing UNIX.


Hakuna Matata.
New Member

Re: Oracle stop development on itanium

Hello.

I'm so tired about reading 'race to the bottom'(1) propaganda like above that I finally registered to this forum.

IT has some specific rules that make it somewhat unique. There are few who have the intellectual capabilities to cope with the inherent complexity of IT in general.
Seldomly these are decision-takers (I'm one, so I know what I speak of, plus I count myself to the stupid majority). Therefor, there has always been a deep desire for having a dramatically less complex IT infrastructure.
This was demonstrated in several scales for decades now, starting with the unparalleled success story of an operating system from Redmond, and continues in other iterations of the dance around the golden calf. Take virtualization for example. While it truly is a big step forward, it is still immature(2) and not at all suitable for all cases it is praised for.
What in my opinion is quite unique for IT is that the race-to-the-bottom appears to go faster and in a more dramatic way than in other industries. Moving from HP-UX to Linux fits as a perfect example.
Everyone who persists in stupid generaliasations like 'running your IT on linux is cheaper' is either a dreamer or doesn't see the whole picture:

The whole picture is that Linux does has numerous fields where it is indeed the most cost-effective player in. These are primarily small to mid-sized, non-critical setups. In any other context any _real_ comparison shows that Linux is on par or worse with regard to TCO. Among the reasons for this are less reliable/scalable hardware base, higher speed of development, shorter support lifecycles, dramatically richer featureset (it is the nature of software that bugs come as a certain percentage of code extent), testing focus on feature popularity instead of significance.

A dreamer is someone who blindly follows other people's tunes without considering/opening their eyes first. So someone who still believes in the future of free operating systems in enterprise context. Someone who keeps repeating how perfect and stable cheap solutions are. Someone who ignores the universal rule that you always get what you paid for. If the latter wouldn't be true, we were still sitting around campfires with our clubs and furs.

In more than 15 years of IT I have been many times feeling the pain when initially paying for Unix systems. I'm looking forward to that kind of pain again. Why that? Because I have also listened to people explaining to me outages of cheaper systems.
E.g. why a defect in SuSE deleted the default route, why a defect in SuSE made NFS mount stop before STP was ready, why OpenBSD froze when VLAN tagging was used, why Debian didn't honour nsswitch.conf settings, why redhat crumbled into pieces while upgrading. And since someone boldly dared to mention vmware not only being on par but a successor to clustering, I simply recommend taking a look into their amazing defect ("knowledge" ;-) database. They just gave "never touch a running system" a whole new quality.

Regardless, for some people "reality" will always be what they want to see.
And, I have to admit, this can pay off if many join forces in doing so over a significant period of time. Consider a server OS from Redmond, which after 18 years of improvements today really is a solid and reliable piece of software.

Maybe /they/ will port their enterprise DB to HP-UX, who knows.

For me, HP-UX still still makes a good choice in a certain scenario, despite the ongoing childish war between a few way-too-rich men at the top of oracle and hp - the former apparently giving a sh*t on customers demands and needs.

My $0.02
vt

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom
2) Everyone I know utilizing vmware officially tells how pleased they are, in private then they admit having been bitten by the same rate of defects than we were in our own setups, and that savings sometimes were minimal or simply non-existing.
Esteemed Contributor

Re: Oracle stop development on itanium

Hi,

Well "open source" and the "race to the bottom"... Interesting point... Since the socio economic concept from where the term is derived minorly relates to cost... People would now want to "race to the middle"...

Regards
Ismail Azad
Read, read and read... Then read again until you read "between the lines".....
Occasional Contributor

Re: Oracle stop development on itanium

I think oracle has advantage, changing hardware is more easier than changing db and application... just do exp and imp and you are on new hardware. :) ... but i dont like this move from oracle. Because as per my experience customers are very happy with oracle on hp-ux rather than going for x86 platforms
Advisor

Re: Oracle stop development on itanium

I am always wondering what is OpenVMS market place, for which application it is used now, who will buy OpenVMS?
And now, I am wondering what will be the
HP-UX market place? How will it be changed? As i know Oracle application, especially OracleDB products are the main target for HP-UX. What applications will be the target forhp-UX? So many questions...
Honored Contributor

Re: Oracle stop development on itanium

I would call the ongoing RACE - a race to be "Smart". Smart because as Nicolas Carr is being proved "IT does not matter" anymore. IT is becoming commoditized and those who are SMART -- wins.

FUDs, POV's abound and will continue to abound around the Linux environment. Pundits, self-annointed experts, technical "shysters" if allowed to dominate your trains of thought will consume you good.

Any IT system - whether Open Source based (Linux) or the proprietary ones WILL always have pitfalls and obstacles ahead. How does one mitigate the risks?

- test, test, test

Hakuna Matata.
Exalted Contributor

Re: Oracle stop development on itanium

Amazing how you can talk for 45 minutes to a reporter and they get very little right.

What I actually said is if HP wants to call Oracle's Itanium bluff, they could port the OS to x86.

I don't see that as a productive move. Coming out with an alternative hardware/software stack that costs less due to use of open source database technology would be a great way to go.

Anyway, there are other databases that work on HP-UX. I hope HP provides an end to end stack that competes and lets customers save money. They'll also need to get more aggressive on Itanium pricing.

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Steven E Protter
Owner of ISN Corporation
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http://hpuxconsulting.com
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