Should swinstall & Ignite-UX tools be implemented w/Java?

[IMteam]

Hello! We are investigating user interface technologies for future
tools in the software management and Ignite-UX space on HP-UX. We are
very interested in YOUR opinion for determining our direction.

One choice we are considering would require Java to be installed on your
system in order to run the software management tools for either a GUI
(graphical) or TUI (terminal). Command line tools would not require
Java. Please take a brief moment and provide comments on the following
questions. Your input is very much appreciated!

1) a. Would it be acceptable to deliver Java-based user interface tools
(BOTH GUI and TUI dependent on the JRE) for software management and
Ignite-UX?

b. If not, what are your concerns?

c. In the event Java is unacceptable, would performing software
management via the command line only, without the aid of a
GUI/TUI, be an okay alternative (or do you want the user
interface)?

2) a. If you have any other comments on UI directions in the software
management space, please feel free to provide any other thoughts.
(For example: Web/browser UIs vs. X11 vs. TUI, etc.)

b. Do you have any other restrictions/guidelines specific to security,
networking and/or installed software on your systems that may influence
or impact the ability to perform software management functions?

[Patrick Wallek · Accepted solution]

1a) NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1b) I DESPISE Java. If the applications are not written well, they are junk and perform poorly!!! Also, I do not want to have to worry about installing more software to make something work. If I don't have to install Java on a machine I don't.

1c) There are times when I do use the GUI, though few and far between, but when I do I want it to work!

2a) Stick with an X11 type GUI or TUI. I know those will work. I don't have to install Java or a browser or anything like that.

2b) None right now, but again why should I have to install something I normally wouldn't?

[Laurie Gellatly]

1a) NO.
1b)Imagine how a user would feel the day they
NEED to install a new patch or recover a
system with ignite and find they can't
because of the wrong version of JRE. Do you
want to accept that support call? So my concern
is that adding Java to these critical tools
will just make their operation more likely
to fail and introduces extra dependancies.
1c) Most swinstall and ignite work I do is
via the command line. I've had both good and
bad experiences with the GUI. It could be argued
that it has advantages when you're in unfamiliar
territory, so keeping it would be a advantage for those times.

2a) Seems to me that a not overly fancy
(across browser compatalbe) web interface
would be a better way to go but with no
dependancies on Java or Javascript even
being active on the client.

2b) Working in a firewalled environment means
there will always be unavailable ports.
X11 may not be allowed. HTTP on port 80 may
be unavailable. HTTPS and SSH seems to be
the most favoured direction.

P.S. my consulting rates are reasonable. ;{)

...Laurie :{)

[Steven E. Protter]

1) a. Would it be acceptable to deliver Java-based user interface tools
(BOTH GUI and TUI dependent on the JRE) for software management and
Ignite-UX?

It would be accceptable. I would however not use them.

b. If not, what are your concerns?
Java is unreliable. Reliance on java tools could cause version conflict issues with Oracle which requires and certifies with only certain versions of java.

I quote Bill Hassell: Real Sysadmins don't use GUI's. As surprised as I was to read that Bill actually retired and HP was silly enough to offer him that status, my first argument with Bill was over this point. He won.

c. In the event Java is unacceptable, would performing software
management via the command line only, without the aid of a GUI/TUI, be an okay alternative (or do you want the user
interface)?

I am quite happy with SD/UX. If you provide a java tool, I'll quality control it, and possibly use it for dcumentation. I don't need any enhancement like th is.

2) a. If you have any other comments on UI directions in the software management space, please feel free to provide any other thoughts.
(For example: Web/browser UIs vs. X11 vs. TUI, etc.)

Being able to perform installations via web interfaces present another possibility of root password compromise. I Think presenting the option is fine but leave my command line alone.

b. Do you have any other restrictions/guidelines specific to security,
networking and/or installed software on your systems that may influence
or impact the ability to perform software management functions?

We don't use root password through any thin clients for fear that Microsoft IE will cache the root password on the C: drive.

SEP

[T G Manikandan]

1.a)NO
b)The dependencies for a tool to work is a hell.Right now things are going fine.
THink about the SAM which is replaced by kcweb,more dependencies.
Version dependent,third party software dependent ,problems.

If the dependencies are hpux proprietary then it would be OK.
Think about Oracle,still lot of bugs to be fixed in the installer section alone.
they have been with java for more than 5 yrs.

c)There can be options where java can also be used but that should not be the only way!

2.a)kcweb dependencies on Apache,some other tools.Lot of problems.

[Ed Sampson]

I vote no. I haven't seen a java interface that worked as well as the existing X11 tools.

[G. Vrijhoeven]

Hi,

1a. First :I am against a performance decrease/memory increase if those can be eliminated i do not care. but i am afraid it will cost extra memory and it works slower.

1b. goto 1a

1c. I think a GUI is needed for first line support/admins and people that only use it once a year.

2a. I try not to use them but for some tasks ( with a low frequenty) it is realy usefull. The SAM log ( commands generated through the UI) is alway nice.

2b. The ablilty to install software on remote servers (push function) always can generate a security leak. I think ( and know) this must be ( is) considered. I am no security guru but i am sure HP has some.

HTH

Gideon

[Jeroen Peereboom]

1) a. Would it be acceptable to deliver Java-based user interface tools
(BOTH GUI and TUI dependent on the JRE) for software management and
Ignite-UX?

Yes, but HP has to make damn sure that it is more or less Java version independent and that the Java product is stable and easily installed.

b. If not, what are your concerns?
My concern is that it is depending on other software to run and that you need a graphics terminal to run it.

c. In the event Java is unacceptable, would performing software
management via the command line only, without the aid of a
GUI/TUI, be an okay alternative (or do you want the user
interface)?

I like the swinstall text, menu based interface. Don't know about the Ignite interfaces.

2) a. If you have any other comments on UI directions in the software
management space, please feel free to provide any other thoughts.
(For example: Web/browser UIs vs. X11 vs. TUI, etc.)

What technology is usewd by the scure web console? Only web, or also Java?

b. Do you have any other restrictions/guidelines specific to security,
networking and/or installed software on your systems that may influence
or impact the ability to perform software management functions?
No.

[Elmar P. Kolkman]

Please don't do this... I haven't seen any JAVA GUI that is fast enough to make it workable yet... If you want JAVA programmers to work on GUI's let them concentrate on the GUI's HP already delivers in JAVA and make them faster and less memory intensive. If they succeed with that, only then let them look at the current GUI's we have in X and try to add a JAVA GUI for the same functions. Only when those JAVA GUI's are as fast, reliable and memory independent as the X-GUI's it might be acceptable to remove the X-GUI's...

[Ravi_8]

Hi,

1) Yes

It makes our tasks easier

2)Since HP-UX comes with Netscape, you can provide access to create/delete files or directories through browsing