Why is it we can't just do patch upgrades lately?....

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi Rita:

I think Duncan provides a very cogent view.

I look at the Update-UX tool as delivery mechanism to insure that when products are updated any requisite patches come with them in the most seamless way.

I would expect (hope?) that the next step might (should?) be the ability for the Software Assistant (SWA) to deliver at least subsets of Update-UX functionality.

Regards!

...JRF...

[Patrick Wallek]

I had a conversation with Bob Campbell from HP, who is involved intimately with SWA, regarding using SWA to update more than just patches. For example, if SWA detects a security issue with SSH, then it should download the latest version of SSH.

Bob said that this is something that they have thought about and would like to do, but there are some issues that they need to resolve internally (meaning internal to HP, not necessarily code-wise) first. I won't go into detail on the issues he described here.

Hopefully this is something that will show up in SWA in the next year or two.

[Steven E. Protter]

Shalom again,

JRF says:
I would expect (hope?) that the next step might (should?) be the ability for the Software Assistant (SWA) to deliver at least subsets of Update-UX functionality

I agree. WE can make it happen by beating on HP and demanding it.

upgrade-ux is a poor foundation for this work based on reliability.

SEP

[Patrick Wallek]

>>upgrade-ux is a poor foundation for this work based on reliability.

According to HP, update-ux (not upgrade-ux) has been much improved, especially since the 10.20 to 11.0 versions.

I'm not yet convinced that using it is a bad thing. Yes it does have a bad reputation based on the past, but I think you need to try the latest version before making a judgment on this version.

[Duncan Edmonstone]

One more thing...

To the best of my knowldege the patch bundles aren't going away - you can still choose to just pick up the 6 monthly bundle and appply that. Also you can still apply individual product bundles via swinstall (such as a new version of Serviceguard or Glance)

You really only need to look at update-ux if you want some functionality that isn't delivered by a patch *and* the product that delivers that functionality has a hard dependency on an update release.

Right now the only product(s) that I'm aware of that have *hard* dependencies on specific HP-UX update releases are the various versions of HP Integrity Virtual Machines... I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of right now. Even stuff like LVM2 can be installed seperately if you really wish to:

http://h20392.www2.hp.com/portal/swdepot/displayProductInfo.do?productNumber=BaseLVM

HTH

Duncan

[Andrew Rutter]

hi,

thanks guy's and Rita,

this has cleared a few concerns I had regarding the subject. I can see both sides of the coin.

it will be interesting to see how long the patch bundles will be available for though, before or if they do go to just update from the core os cd's?

One thing that had been mentioned to me was that HP may have done it so that if you wanted to keep the system upto date you had to have it on support with them with updates. there way of keeping the support?

I hope this wont be the case.

The conversion came about at a hp training centre, when we were covering patch installs and there was no mention of the OS updates, which is the recommended way. This was the 11.31 sys admin course and you would have thought that this would have been covered there too

but, alas the trainer was left pondering

Andy

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi (again) Rita et al.

It seems to me that we are gaining considerable flexibility. With SWA and the new ability to download Operating Environments (OE) for 11.31 we are moving to an on-demand model.

http://h20341.www2.hp.com/hpux11i/us/en/products/hpux11iv3-edelivery.html

How about adding another SWA analyzer tag ("OE"?) and/or "APP" for analyzing products installed on a server outside the user's licensed OE realm? I'd love to hear Bob Campbell chime in here.

Even having SWA only _report_ that new OE's and/or application software products are available would be beneficial.

While I like the name 'update-ux' because it describes what it is, I agree with Duncan that it has a jaded reputation due to its past "sins". A little bit of hype from HP saying that 'update-ux' "...is not your father's Oldsmobile..." might help, too. And, no, I'm not suggesting that any of the aforementioned products may (or should) go the way the poor car did :-)

The experiences of Torsten and Rita speak well for the "new" 'update-ux'.

Regards!

...JRF...

[Rita C Workman]

Gentlemen thank you for all your comments - it is very much appreciated.

There is no final consensus other than:
If you have HPVirtualMachines, so far you need to use update-ux. It is felt that right now that is probably, but not definitively, the only software that requires this method.
If you are just looking for latest patches on everything else you can do either qtly patches or use swa tools and download patches as usual.

Points were assigned given 10 to your first response and 1 to any additional comments you made.

Kindest regards!
Rita

[Bob E Campbell]

FYI, no big intrigue about SWA and product analysis. While we are interested in the functionality it will require the cooperation of many parts of HP, thus more meetings and time before everything is lined up.

While that happens, we are working on other functionality that is within our control.