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Your Opinion in clustering ?

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Occasional Contributor

Your Opinion in clustering ?

I've just been to the RedHat Linux clustering training course recently and I felt Linux cluster is too far behind Tru64 Cluster.

The GFS filesystem is a crab. It cannot be compared with Advfs at all.
RHEL 3 used quorum disk, RHEL 4 was taken it out and RHEL 5 puts the quorum disk back.

I wonder why tru64 cluster have been thrown into the bin by HP ?

Anyone got experience with Solaris cluster ?

13 REPLIES
Honored Contributor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

Completely agree with you. Tru64 features and its clustering is far superior than most out there.

> I wonder why tru64 cluster have been thrown into the bin by HP ?

Well, because it made 'Business Sense' to do that! :) (Yep, that's a big joke!)
Honored Contributor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

I also completely agree with you.
In unix world every clustering solution is far behind TRU cluster (with advfs).
Also HP service guard (even with Veritas cfs) is far behind TRU cluster.

I wonder why tru64 cluster have been thrown into the bin by HP ?

It is simple! Politics!
One thing about managers. All they know is to compare excel tables. And they think they reduce costs (but also reduce bussiness).
But they are right, less bussiness, less costs!
Do not forget that HP promised to port Tru cluster and advfs to next version of HP-UX, and then said NO, we will NOT.
That is why big TRU64 customers migrate to IBM.
In vino veritas, in VMS cluster
Trusted Contributor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

Hi Alan

I have experience with Tru- and SUNCluster 3.1.
The good thing about SUNCluster: You can get it working.
Some of the bad things:
-Not a single image cluster > (How to keep both nodes up to date?)
-File systems that are mounted on both nodes simultaneously are not recommended for production.
-Very complicated device management with metadevices on metadevices.
-If you want to start up an application in cluster node you have to create a service. This involves:
define a service, build a SW-package, copy it to both nodes, install the SW-package on both nodes,.... (Same for every change on the Cluster service)

Most of our Solaris customers prefer to have a cold standby System instead of a SUNCluster.

rgds Stiwi
Occasional Advisor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

On Linux, you should try HP EFS Clustered Gatway, it's similar to Tru64, works on RHEL or SLES
Honored Contributor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

"On Linux, you should try HP EFS Clustered Gatway, it's similar to Tru64, works on RHEL or SLES"
Really???
Does it have DLM (distrubuted lock manager)?
Real cluster file system?
Does it provide direct access to disks from all nodes in cluster?
In vino veritas, in VMS cluster
Honored Contributor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

I think that the closest software to TruCluster is Veritas cluster. You don't have single system image, but most features available.
Por que hacerlo dificil si es posible hacerlo facil? - Why do it the hard way, when you can do it the easy way?
Honored Contributor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

THE best clusters? OpenVMS! No doubt

Next best: Tru64. Cluster File system of course, but also the earlier, lesser known, but critically important Distributed Raw Device (DRD) underlying service.

>> I wonder why tru64 cluster have been
thrown into the bin by HP ?

I watched the happen from the side lines.
First row side lines.

It's generally labelled as NIH = "Not Invented Here.", Combine that with a slow and big and change resistant Hpux engineering team and you get failure.
The Memory Channel vs Gigabit vs Infiniband vs Hypertransport did not help either.

The intent to port Tru64 cluster software to HPUX was there. Heck, the code was there! Just not the willingness to accept input from the other side of the continent, and to move forward a little faster than the typical snail pace of Hpux releases.

I can understand how HPUX customerss value the stability of the releases. But at some point the lack of change, innovation, will bite you in the behind.

fwiw,
Hein van den Heuvel
Honored Contributor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

>>> THE best clusters? OpenVMS! No doubt

I Agree. But, consider another statement you did:

>>> "Not Invented Here."

And the dropped prommises that HP did to merge tru64 features into hp-ux. What would be the reason to believe that OpenVMS will last in the time as long as another Unix? What is the support that thirt part vendors give into this platform? The true roadmap?

Changing from Unix to OpenVMS is not a simple task. We have to move from our TruCluster platform today and OpenVMS is not evaluated as an option even when the cluster technology is very good, mostly, because we don't trust HP words anymore.
Por que hacerlo dificil si es posible hacerlo facil? - Why do it the hard way, when you can do it the easy way?
Honored Contributor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

>>> And the dropped prommises that HP did to merge tru64 features into hp-ux.

That is the main reason I lost TRU64 customers.
HP dropped prommises!
Now they are IBM costomers because they can trust IBM (that is what they said)!

I agree with Hein, VMS cluster is THE BEST!
And the second best is (was) TRU64 cluster.

I am studing HP Service Guard cluster now (because of HP-UX CSE certification). It is not much better than MS cluster.

Hein said:
But at some point the lack of change, innovation, will bite you in the behind.

I agree. Damage is allready done.
In vino veritas, in VMS cluster
Occasional Visitor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

We can all agree that the TruCluster excels in clustering and it is difficult to find compareable technologies on the market.

But I think it is unfair to say that all Linux cluster are too far behind the Tru64 Cluster by only evaluating the standalone RHEL Cluster Suite.

In fact there are projects that are quite similar to the Tru64 Cluster.

Similar regarding the Single System Image aspect, availability, scalability and ease of management.

Currently one of the worldwide largest SAP data centers, located in Liechtenstein, is migrating a TruCluster infrastructure to a RHEL based and fully supported open source SSI cluster project.

Even HP recommends a migration towards Linux, where HP-UX is not an option:
http://www.atix.de/downloads/4407_AlphaLife_DAT_DA4_V2.pdf

Honored Contributor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

Reiner
Is there a document about that written in english?
In vino veritas, in VMS cluster
Occasional Visitor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

Vladimir
The document is so far only printed in Germany but you can read more about the open source project that is used for this migration in English: http://open-sharedroot.org
Valued Contributor

Re: Your Opinion in clustering ?

Dear All,

They have killed the technology, first bad decission was to sell digital to box seller compaq, they did not know the technology.Scond bad decission was to sell Compaq to HP, to kill the remining.

Shardha
//Add this to "OnDomLoad" event