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Odd post in another section of the forum.

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Steven Hauk_1
Honored Contributor

Odd post in another section of the forum.

What is this in procura's reply? Can we get this removed?

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/questionanswer.do?threadId=617114

18 REPLIES
H.Merijn Brand (procura
Honored Contributor
Solution

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

It's your statistical metrics, which, because you are earning your points in business forum support, rather than in HP-UX, looks a bit weird.

Maybe you appreciate it more if you know what it means. It's all explained in http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/stats.html

Most people like it, and even request it. Since I never visit the business forum, I was attended here by someone else, who thought you might want to have them too.

Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn
Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn
Gary Cantwell
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

Hi Stephen,

Merijn posts the stats for every members points promotion on the ITRC Forum
here's one that was done last week:

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=614499

As he said he doesn't visit the BSC at all. Plus there aren't as many promotions here, especially HOT promotions! :-)

Did you look at the attached graph in his reply to your congrats thread? It shows your progress in relation to the 8 members both above and below you.

Hope this (along with Merijn's reply) helps you understand,

Cheers,

Gary
charles k. norman
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

Hi Gary,

I have not given consent to procura to mine the details in this forum in respect of myself to analyse my pattern of posting. Nor do I suppose other members of the forum have given consent. Has HP given its consent to details of the membership being on an independent site as well as questionable analysis of points? Surely, the information on this site is priveleged and subject to copyright and if that is right procura should not in my view be engaged in such activity. Does this conflict with the Data Protection Act concerning personal records?

I can understand why Steven would ask the question. I thought it looked offensive showing "Avarage points per report: 1843.25" as it is grossly misleading and seemed to trivialise the excellent achievement of Steven over a long period, where he has answered countless questions. In addition a line rising vertically does not reflect the true commitment of Steven which has been industrious, professional and with outstanding expertise over weeks, months and years. That straight line could also be misconstrued as meaning it did not take much effort on Steven's part to reach the phenomenal achievement. It did and there are hundreds and hundreds of people who have benefitted from Steven's great expertise. Even if it is meant to be humorous it could be seen to ridicule rather than respect the achievement of an individual.

Perhaps you can clarify whether procura is acting within HP Policy and with the authority of HP. If so I think every member who joins should be advised that their name and any details in their profile may appear on his site and others. I think most people will be wholly unaware of the position and are entitled to know what is being done behind their back.

Best Regards
Charles
Steven Hauk_1
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

I appreciate Charles's comments above. It's nice to have some support. My main concern is that I couldn't tell whether there was personal information somehow mined and reported in the post. I saw my login number in that data and for all I knew there could be something representing other data in the post. I did not look at the attachment because, because given my concern about the post, I didn't want to risk downloading a malicious file.
H.Merijn Brand (procura
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

There is no malintent whatsoever, and all the data presented is just a reflection of what all of the members can read from the users profile.

I've started this about two years ago, when I was looking at some of my own data and the general responsiveness and performance of the forum pages, and I got only positive comments, from both the forum members and the moderators.

I have absolutely no problem with my post being removed from your congrat thread, nor do I object to not posting any stats in this part of the forum anymore.

It's obviously not as appriciated as in the other parts.

Personally I feel you are a bit overreacting, but that might be because the `other side' is so immensly possitive.

I was just being directed to that congrat thread by someone else (Gary in this case) telling me that someone /might/ be interested in a graph. If I would not have been told, I would have never seen that thread, since I never visit this part of the forum.

Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn
Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn
charles k. norman
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

I am sorry but with respect you have taken the personal profiles of members of the forum and extracted them to your own website, seemingly without permission. I believe HP should act to ensure our profiles are kept within this site and not published on other sites for other purposes. Here we know the limits of what HP are doing with the information without the sort of thing you are publishing on your site for anyone to inspect, and about which many of us have been wholly oblivious.


There is a polite way to say thank you or to acknowledge the contribution of a valued member - in words not figures. I have the highest regard for Steven (even though we do not always agree) and there is one thing I do know - any figures will always understate the world class knowledge he has across the pavilion, deskpro and related platforms and the outstanding contribution he makes to these forums.

When the nice occassion has come to thank people, as is special moment for Steven, you do not rank them above or below a range of other people. Steven's results stand on their own merit not to overshadow or be overshadowed by people you have popped into your statistical analysis. Steven deserves the full praise from his peers and we are celebrating his achievement - not a graph. This is not an exam result with publication of rankings. It is a mark of recognition for our appreciation for Steven and the congratulations are wholly in order in the proper form for what Steven does best, in helping people all the time to make the forums worthwhile.
H.Merijn Brand (procura
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

Sorry Charles, I do *not* publish private data on my site. All that data is available to the public.

I've often encountered moments that evene google found posts in the forum better/faster/more reliable than the forum search has.

I don't violate any of the forum rules, and if I would have done so, Dan would have told me very long ago.

So if you want to make a point of this, contact HP, but don't blame me.

Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn
Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn
charles k. norman
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

There is a copyright symbol on each of the pages and you are extracting the data on a wholesale basis or in simpler terms mining the whole of the membership records. And having done so you are re-analysing the data in a manner to extend the information on your web site and as already noted those results are highly misleading.
Perignon
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

Hi Gents,

Personally, I see no harm meant (at the moment) in procura's initiative. This said, I'd question the utility of congrats where most forum members are merely expecting technical answers to their problems.

Conversely, I'd welcome any efforts at rationalizing the best solutions provided against those categories of computers/components concerned.

Cheers
Alain.

Frustrations surmounted are paving the way to expertise.
Gary Cantwell
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

Hi Stephen,

Do you want Merijn's stats removed from that thread?

Cheers,

Gary
N/A

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

I've been following this thread and am not understanding why this ever became an issue.

The original post was of a congratulatory nature to mark Steven's movement to the next level. That to my knowledge was all that we did around here as far as awknowledgement.

The reason why is the fact that we all are here, not for the points, but to help others out with their problems. That's why when issues like this get brought up, or "Point-Stealing" I start to wonder why people are really here.

Is it to tell everybody, I'm a lightbulb on HP's Forums, or is it to lend a helping hand?

I don't think that any type of records should be maintained by one user about everybody's points, not because of copyright or invasion of privacy, but because there is simply no need, and I would question the motives of any that did keep that conplex of a record. It isn't to help others. Could that time making a spreadsheet with all the nice chart colors be spent helping people, if not in the IT Forums than in the BSF more often? You all have distinguished yourselves and you don't need a star to prove it.

Sadly HP needed motivation to get people to answer questions. And as I stated, you can see there is often a corelation between how easy it is to fix a problem, and the chance of getting points with how much somebody will respond, and honestly that is sad.

Too many good people have left because of personal differences or bickering amongst us here, and we should stop, and move on.

That's my two cents.
Perignon
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

Hi TJ,

Welcome to your "2 cents" address! Worth the price for fresh air actually. Concur with you that members of this forum are displaying a higher motivation at helping users in pain than the manufacturer does. Personally keep dreaming of a world where that situation be twisted the other way around.

Alain.
Frustrations surmounted are paving the way to expertise.
H.Merijn Brand (procura
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

Click on my link, and see where I get my points, since that's what you care about.

My motivation here has nothing to do with points. I'm just a big open-source fan, and I'm trying to make the HP-UX access to this wonderfull FREE source as open as possible.

Most of my answers are about Perl, since that's what I know most about. Most problems people have proved to have with Perl is binding it to Oracle, hance I researched those problems and offered solutions, probably far beyond the service other members would be willing to give. That's because I am a perl porter, and the official maintainer of the HP-UX configuration parts of Perl.

I just want Perl to be easy. Especially for HP-UX users. I love HP-UX. The more I (have to) use AIX, DEC/OSF, and other commercial OS's, the more I love HP-UX. I started with HP-UX 8, and still like it on 11i.

Aside for Oracle, the next big problem open source users find is GNU gcc, so I have provided every possible build you can imagine, even actual builds for HP-UX 10.20, long after HP has ceased support.

The time I spent (yes, in the past sense) in creating the graphs is far less than you can imagine. It's completely written in Perl, and for the most parts copied from other scripts I have written for my job. And it is FUN! I didn't write them to brag about someone's points. I wrote them because I like statistics and I like Perl.

My time spent here is purely to serve. I have pleased many more with my perl answers than I was pleased with solutions to my questions. I don't have many questions. I have 20 years of Unix experience, and I like to use that here.

The tone and attitude I receive in this part of the forum is one that makes me very reluctant to visit it ever again.

Enjoy, Have FUN! (in whatever you like) H.Merijn
Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn
Perignon
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

H.Merijn,

No blame from my side, just the contrary. It's nice to have and share passion.

Alain.
Frustrations surmounted are paving the way to expertise.
John Y
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

Same here.!
N/A

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

Like I said earlier, we don't want you to leave, we've lost enough people who have highly distinguished themselves and obviously know a great deal about what they are talking about.

We must realize that we are serving people here, regardless of our non-HP affliation, and must serve not only those that ask the questions but each other with a servant's heart.

One of the most well known phrases in Corporate Leadership is Lead, first by serving.
Steven Hauk_1
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

Gary:

Now that I have received the explanation, I have no objection at all to procura's post.

Steven
H.Merijn Brand (procura
Honored Contributor

Re: Odd post in another section of the forum.

Thanks, Steven :)

It at least proved that I was able to express myself and make myself clear.

Enjoy, Have FUN! (In the most literal sense of the word!) H.Merijn
Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn