Ultra320 SCSI HardDrive in ML370 G4, 80 pins

[NullN]

Using HP hard drive, the system recognised the drive. However, when I switch to an IBM drive, it can't see it in the RAID set up (F8).

This is IBM 07N9428 Ultra320. I wondered if the 2 jumper settings have anything to do with it. I tried various jumper configuration, but none of them works. One them when I set it to "SE" (Single End), it sees the drive and complaint it's a wrong type.

Anyway, if this is not working, how about connecting it directly to the motherboard's SCSI ports (port 1 or 2). This is 80 pin hard drive. Which cable would be able to connect the motherboard's SCSI port to this?

[NullN]

I saw an adapter here:

http://www.scsi4me.com/economical-internal-ultra320-80pin-sca2-to-68pin-converter.html

also, it appears the motherboard's SCSI ports are HD68. So, a HD68 cable is needed.

Now, I wonder if the RAID set up doesn't work, would this work since it's $17 + shipping just for the adapter itself?

[Michael A. McKenney]

You can only move RAID onto the same family of controllers. I was able to move RAID array to 3 LSI Logic MegaRAID controllers because they were in the same family and same chipset. You can't move them onto other chipsets and families.

U320 SCSI needs to be terminated at the end of the cable. Usually a active terminator instead of drives passive termination. 68 Pin is SCSI U320. 80 pin is IDE enhanced.

Unless the IBM RAID was created on the server, you will probably need to move it back to the SCSI RAID controller it was on. Are you sure the SCSI port is RAID. Many onboard SCSI ports are just SCSI.

[Michael A. McKenney]

I spent $800 for SCSI RAID and $300 for SCSI controllers. Cables are $150-$200 each. The 15K SAS drives were $320 each.

My RAID 1 SAS 15K array
1.097 GB/s cached reads
850 MB/s cached writes

I was able to get
LSI Logic MegaRAID SCSI RAID controller
850 MB/s cached reads and 500 MB/s cached writes.

[NullN]

The IBM is just a hard drive made by IBM. I take that and put in an HP caddy. The RAID I mentioned is 6 bay raid from the bottom of the ML370 G4 case. It's not a separate RAID. Looking inside the case, the RAID is connected to a separate card. So, the 2 SCSI ports on the motherboard are not used. I was thinking of connecting the drive to 1 of these 2 ports. The adapter I mentioned above would handle the conversion from CSA2 80 pin to HD-68. However, if the hard drive is Ultra320, 80 hot pluggable, why doesn't it work directly in the RAID hot plug slot.

[Michael A. McKenney]

I forgot my SCA SAS drives are 80 pin. You would need a 80 pin to 68 pin converter or a new cable

http://www.cs-electronics.com/iSAS-cables-NEW.htm

If memory serves, I used the iSAS-7384 on my LSI Logic MegaRAID 8708EM2 to 15K SAS SCA 80 pin drives.

[Ali]

Hi There,

let me clarify.
SCSI Ultra320 is wide scsi BUS which works on LVD signals.

SCSI Ultra320 hard drive has only 68 pins. It's a SCA connector which makes it hotplug and part of harddrive casing (drive Carrier) and has 80 pin connector.

HP Hotplug Drives comes along with the casing only and there isn't any part no available just for drive casing. means drive casing is not available seperately.

Coming to your query... 80 pin Drives employing SCA have only one plug which carries both data and power and also allows them to receive their configuration parameters from the SCSI backplane. So, hotplug drives (80 pins) connects to hot plug hard drive backplane only and you must not change the SCSI ID jumper by taking out the casing as backplane has fixed SCSI ID assignment baywise.

your second query... why IBM drive is not working on HP Smart array raid controller... HP has specific firmware on HP hard drives which makes them work with HP smart array controller. IBM drive does not have HP firmware on it so it may not work with smart array controllers.

Now coming to your other query ... whether you can connect it to Integrated Dual Channel Ultra320 SCSI Adapter....

You may be able to take out the IBM hotplug casing and set the SCSI ID jumper to 0. You can also find the SCSI terminated cable/ribbon cable and connect the IBM hard drive but where would keep the hard drive..? outside the server casing or below the CDROM drive..? and what about support from HP if hard drive does further damage to SCSI controller which is integrated on the motherboard.

And again IBM hard drive may not work with Integrated Dual Channel Ultra320 SCSI Adapter as it has IBM firmware on it.

Hope this helps,

thanks,
Aftab

[Michael A. McKenney]

The cable I mentioned has the 80 pin data connector and power side car. I use them at home on my LSI Logic MegaRAID 8708EM2. The were recommended by LSI Logic along with CS Electronics. Since most of HPs controllers are LSI Logic, the cable should work fine. It is not HP standard. They want an expensive SCA enclosure.

[NullN]

> HP Hotplug Drives comes along with the casing only and there isn't any part no available just for drive casing. means drive casing is not available seperately.

I have the caddy for the drive.

> your second query... why IBM drive is not working on HP Smart array raid controller... HP has specific firmware on HP hard drives which makes them work with HP smart array controller.

This is interesting or rather strange. Most of the IDE hard drives these days don't need firmware/specific driver for them to work. I am surprised SCSI drives need specific firmware.

If the raid controller is the one to cause this need, it's also interesting since RAID can easily be implemented in software. However, that costs CPU cycles, so hardware basically just divide the data out evenly among the drives and write them out to make it faster. Sure, some company can always add specific stuffs to that a standard interface like Ultra320 can have hidden/extended commands. Further more, if the logic IBM hard drives need to be used for IBM servers, and HP drives must be used for HP servers, then a Seagate like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148280&cm_re=ultra320-_-22-148-280-_-Product

would work on what servers?

> Now coming to your other query ... whether you can connect it to Integrated Dual Channel Ultra320 SCSI Adapter....

> You may be able to take out the IBM hotplug casing and set the SCSI ID jumper to 0. You can also find the SCSI terminated cable/ribbon cable and connect the IBM hard drive but where would keep the hard drive..? outside the server casing or below the CDROM drive..?

The drive probably would fit into the case below the CD drive. Currently, I put in an IDE there, and it fits nicely without any problem.

> and what about support from HP if hard drive does further damage to SCSI controller which is integrated on the motherboard.

The drive shouldn't damage anything. I built many computers by plugging components together (motherboard, hard drive, ram, power supply, etc). All interfaces should be standardized, and if 80 pin, Ultra320 is what needed, then it should be just that.

> And again IBM hard drive may not work with Integrated Dual Channel Ultra320 SCSI Adapter as it has IBM firmware on it.

Yea, if specific firmware is needed, then this won't work. It's a said day if these days and age, and people still have to have proprietary hard drive. However, if using the SCSI port, I can try to get the driver to recognized it versus the RAID controller which I don't think I have control over it.

[Michael A. McKenney]

HP does modify firmware for this purpose. They want only HP parts in their servers. You could get a Non-HP RAID controller and try it. It might work. Most of the time HP neuters their controllers. I have an LSI Logic MegaRAID and a HP SCSI RAID controller. Both are identical hardware. The LSI controller has the full BIOS configuration possible. HPs version, two commands. I complained to HP. I was told it was because the end users don't know what they are doing so they strip the commands out of it. I said its because their OEMs are idiots and don't know what they are doing.

Try a non-HP controller. If you have Carepaqs on it, stay with HP hardware.

[Ali]

Hi,

I agree with Michael.. If you have carepaq/Contract with HP, stick with HP hardware.

else, third party Raid controller is a good option to consider.

About HP hard drive: I guess they also don't manufacture these drives. it's like OEM products taken from different vendors (Seagate, Maxtor, samsung etc.)and customised as per their requirement.

Connecting IBM drive to integrated SCSI controller : as you mentioned it can fit nicely underneath CDROM drive, you can explore this possibilities by removing the hard drive caddy, and get the ribbon/terminated cable to connect to internal scsi port.

SCSI Bus needs to be terminated on both ends.. controller does termination at one end and SCSI cable in non-hotplug environment at other end. Hot-plug termination is done by backplane at other end.

If you are using it as NON hotplug drive then SCSI ID setting is another thing to consider.. usually hard drive has sticker which explains the SCSI ID settings.

Thanks,
Aftab

[Michael A. McKenney]

I have tried Adaptec and LSI Logic controllers in HP Proliants. They did not function properly. HP much do something to prevent proper functioning.

You should be able to find a SCSI cage for that server to support 80 pin SCA drives.

[NullN]

You mentioned "LSI Logic MegaRAID" above. Do you have it working on Proliant or a different server? I understand the LSI Logic is not working, but how about the MegaRAID version? If it does, do you mean I also need to get an LSI version of the cage, and it won't work with the current backplane?

@aftab "If you are using it as NON hotplug drive then SCSI ID setting is another thing to consider.. usually hard drive has sticker which explains the SCSI ID settings.", the adapter does appear to have SCSI ID setting. Also, the IBM hard drive also has the SCSI ID settings.

[Ali]

Hi There,

You don't have change anything on the adapter. Adapters are configured with SCSI ID 7 which is given the highest priority on a SCSI Bus.

If you want to use IBM Harddrive as a boot drive set it up as SCSI ID "0". get any SCSI ribbon cable (options 1/3, 1/7, 1/4 cable) which has a terminator on it.

Now you can connect IBM hard drive to integrated SCSI controller and change the boot controller order in system BIOS if you want to boot from IBM hard drive connected to SCSI controller.

thanks,
Aftab

[Michael A. McKenney]

The LSI Logic MegaRAID is in my home workstation I use for CAD/Photoshop. I have Proliant with an identical RAID controller. The drive cage does not matter on SCSI and SAS. Usually, they are given SCSI ID 11 and 13 for SCSI cages. Controllers are always 7. Don't change this. It can cause issues.

The CS-Electronics cables should work with your 80 pin drive. It is always better in a server to use a hot swap cage or enclosure. A cable is not hot swap.

[Michael A. McKenney]

If you don't use a SCA enclosure, you need to set each SCSI drive ID by hand. I usually use 0-6 for hard drives, 8-15 for non-hard drive devices like tape devices, CD/DVD, etc. You should set ID 0 as your bootable hard drive. In RAID, it does not really matter which drive is ID 0. You just don't want any drive as 7.