Samba and pro engineer = bad combination ?

[Bert Kamps]

Hello fellow hpux users,

I have a problem with samba 2.0.7 and a hp9000 d230 server with hpux 10.20 on it.
We have a autoraid connected to the hp server, and we're exporting a directory on it with nfs.

The data which is 'shared' by nfs is used by cadstation-users. The amount of files on the

'share' is 80.000.

We use Pro engineer as cad-program and we're using searchpaths within the application, so it

can find files on /usr2 (the share i was talking about).

The users are downloading parts, which contain on several cad-drawings. So when a user is

download partnr 122 for example, the program will download 100 files or so.

When we use hpux workstation and pro engineer, the download of parts is fast and the

workstation can find the drawing very fast.

But with nt cadstations connecting to the unix server the downloading of parts is much too

slow. The problem is not the transfer speed of the netwerk or samba, but because the parts

consists of many files, samba will search for those files. And that takes a long time, because

it has to search 80000 files.

My question is, why is nfs fast with searching files, and samba so slow? I have read the topic

Samba Performance tuning that came with the samba documentation. But i didn't notice any

performance increase when pro engineer is searching for files.

Is this a known problem?

Thanks in advance,

Bert Kamps
Netherlands

[A. Clay Stephenson]

Hi Bert:

I don't know the specific answer but I can tell you what does work on NT with Pro/E. Get a
PC based NFS client. When I was doing this (and our parts lookups were even larger), this worked well. In my case, I was so UNIX oriented that I refused to consider anything other than NFS so that both the UNIX workstations and NT workstations used the same distributed file systems.

Regards, Clay

[Bert Kamps]

I was also thinking about that, and i have downloaded some nfs client for windows 2000.
But none could mount the nfs-export...
What program do you use, and what kind of settings ?

[A. Clay Stephenson]

Hi Bert:

In our case, WRQ's Reflection/X Suite was a part of our 'standard' NT engineering workstation setup. It comes with an NFS client. Other, cheaper clients may work; I don't know.

Regards, Clay

[Herve BRANGIER]

Hi

I tried 2 NFS clients for 98/NT/2000 :
NFS Maestro (http://www.hummingbird.com/products/nc/nfs/)

OmniNFS (Xlink : http://www.xlink.com )


I prefer to use NFS shares on Unix or Win clients
for stability and performances....

HTH

Herv??

[Bert Kamps]

I have now download omni nfs client. The program sees the nfs-exort. But when i want to 'mount the export on nt, it gives an authentication error.

I selected UiD and Gid authentication, and checked in the /etc/password file for a account. So i used uid 1455 and gid 200. But everything i want to mount it gives an authentication error...

Do you have a solution, or am i just doing something wrong here?

Do you notice a slowdown when using nt cadstations with nfs, or are they just as fast as unix cadstions?

ps: do you know where i can download a demo/shareware version of the program you're using? Because i checked the site of the company that makes the program, but i cannot find an evalution copy.

[Herve BRANGIER]

Hi again

Sorry I don't use cadstation but win and unix
development stations (files are on Unix systems)
I had to try NFS client on windows for one of
our product...

Think you can download OmniNFS on :
http://www.xlink.com/download/d_page/enter2k_demo.htm

But I think it's not possible for the other one.
I remember I had some configuration problem with
Wlink product but it works... sorry I don't
remember how it works because I use NFS Maestro.

Regards,

Herv??

[A. Clay Stephenson · Accepted solution]

Hi again Bert:

All of the NFS products that I am familiar with handle this in one of two ways:
1) When the NT workstation boots or when a new drive is 'mapped' to NFS, a dialog box appears asking for a UNIX login and passwd.

2) A table is maintained on each client with unix uid/gid mapping to NT users

At least as a proof on principle, you could download a Reflection/X Suite evaluation copy and test. http://www.wrq.com

[Bert Kamps]

I tried with OnmiNFS, by selecting as PCNFSD the unix server. Then used a normal login/password. But it still gives an authentication error :(

I also downloaded the Reflextion X program, but when i want to install it, it gives an error. But maybe i made an error.

But the method i use with omninfs is oke, right?

[A. Clay Stephenson]

Hi again Bert:

On your UNIX box, have you set PCNFS_SERVER=1
in /etc/rc.config.d/nfsconf? It not, that is your problem, stop and start NFS and you should be in business.

Clay

[Bert Kamps]

I tried your setting, but it still isn't working. I restarted the nfs-server with sam and in the /sbin/rcx.d dir.

Omninfs is still giving an authentication error. What could be wrong?

I have selected enubtdc1 (the nfs export server) as nfs server, and as nfsd server...
I selected a user that is installed on the unix server. I can telnet to the unix server and log on as that user so that's ok.

This is weird...

[Mark Vollmers]

Bert-

We have our Pro-E files on the Unix server, and only use NT stations to run Pro-E on (our unix workstations are so outdated). We have the server mounted to a folder on NT using a program called Diskaccess. Not that this is the best, but it't what we've had for a while. We have the connection done thorugh NIS as opposed to PCNFS, and I havn't had any problems with speed. I just login using the user name and password, and mount up. To deviate from the unix, we also use Intralink for most of our stuff, and I think that that can search and retrieve assembly files faster than a general listing in folders, but I won't swear to that.

Mark

[Bert Kamps]

So you have a nt server that's a gateway to nfs-share on your unix server?
I also thought about that, but i'm not so sure this will improve the speed.

Our problem is not the transfer rate, but Pro/E is searching for files and that's going faster on our unix boxes. I think Pro/E or NFS is using some kind cache that contains a file list.
If i load a part that consists of 100 files or so, the unix box loads it in let's say 10-20 seconds. So the unix box can find those files between 80.000 other files in 10-20 seconds?

If i map the smb share on a nt box, and i'm browsing the share, the files are shown almost instantly... But when i do a search for one file, it takes ~ 2-3 minutes.
So when i load a part with pro/e on nt, it takes 4 minutes or so to load it up.

When i do a find ./ -name "whatever.prt" -print it also takes 2-3 minutes.
So is Pro/E keeping a cache list?

I have never heard of PCNFS, but omninfs gives me the option of using PCNFS,NIS and UID/GID as authentication.

I have tried UID/GID of an existing user on the unix box, but it won't mount...
I have tried PCNFS (first changing the setting that A. Clay Stephenson suggested) but it still gives an authentication error...

What am i doing wrong? Are we using an too old nfs-server version or something like that?

[Eugen Cocalea]

Hi,

Since I don't use any NFS client for Windows xx, I only can make assumption.

About 3 or 4 years ago, I had an issue with NT - UNIX interconnection, about authentications. The problem was the different style that NT and UNIX keep their passwords. We did a rapid conversion from plain to encrypted and that was it.

On this case, maybe the problem is from the way you export the UNIX directory.

I suggest you try the following (I haven't test this, yet) - export the directory with the option anon=.

Anyway, build the UID/GID table on the NT server. See the following link (it's about problems encountered with another NFS client for Windows, but it has some interesting solutions):
http://www.hummingbird.com/nfsmaestro-users/Sep1998/0042.html

E.

[Mark Vollmers]

Bert-

could it be the specs for the machines? I know that pulling a part on NT vs workstations for us is vary different (slower on unix) simply due to computer speed. it is also slower on NT stations in other buildings (pulling thru the t1 line vs computers in the same building as the server). As far as how we have the NIS set up (using UID/GID):

on NT:
the NFS program has a spot of NIS domain name and NIS server name. It also asks for user and password. Authenticate once to log on. Find the server on the network and map the drive to a letter and run with it.

on UNIX:
make sure everything is in /etc/hosts, fstab, exports. setup NIS (I used SAM).

we use NFS to share NT folders mounted on the server, but you're looking for the other way. I'll also throw out makeing sure that you have the current patches, but I don't think that makes a difference. Tough problem.

Mark

[Bert Kamps]

I'm back again...

I managed to mount a nfs export on a nt station with omninfs and with hummingbird software.

Omninfs is crashing when i want a file list of a directory that has many files in it, and hummingbird is MUCH too slow...

I also tried to compile the newest version of samba (2.2.2) but it failed. It says that the server doesn't support locking...

Anybody got a suggestion, i'm at my ends over here ;(

[Bert Kamps]

Is there some kind of cache setting in Pro/E for remembering file locations? Just like PATH in dos?

We have already NT CACHE on

[Mark Vollmers]

Bert-

WIthin Pro-E, I don't think there is. where it looks for files is constrained by the working directory and then if you have search paths set up in the config.pro (where it will look in specified directories for the file). The only file list that Pro-E is keeping (that I know of) is what is in memory (files in session), and that is cleared when you do it manually or when you close the program.

Are all the files in one directory, or are they split among many sub-directories? Maybe windows is just tapping out resources because there are too many files in one folder, or there are too many sub-directories? I'm reaching here, but I tried doing a simple search for a word (box) on the NT mounted folder (v:\home) and on the UNIX (/home) and the unix took 15 sec and the NT took 1 min 15 sec, so the NT is slower. It might just be that you are covering so many files that it is very noticable. This doesn't necesarily solve your problem, but there might not be a NFS solution; it might just be a natural drawback. Has anyone else out there seen performace issues between NFS mounted folders on windows and the same directory on UNIX? Just a thought.

Mark

[Bert Kamps]

Well there should be some kind of cache, because searching in pro for files is very fast. But when i do a find ./ -name "whatever.prt" -print it also takes a minute or so...

Strange thing is, when i do it in nt with the dir command it takes alsmost the same time...

I have talked with some other sysadmins within our company, and they are using samba 2.0.6 whereas we are using 2.0.7. So we're going to downgrade samba..
The smb.conf from those guys are almost the same as ours, and they have not tweaked samba... They are also using hpux 10.20...

The files are split up in many subdirectories.
If i search with dir whatever.prt /w/s it finds the part pretty quick.
I can browse the biggest shared directory with about 5000 files in it...
If i browse that folder with omninfs, the client crashes..

It's strange because our colleagues our also using samba, and they have the same response time as on unix workstations...

I'm pretty desperate here :) I hope that downgrading of samba will have some positive impact...

[Bert Kamps]

I tested the performancedifference between samba and nfs.

I download files, listed all the directories (our searchpaths) and searching for a file.

The downloading of files with samba is just as fast as nfs.

The listing of directories i checked by using some commands.
On nt, i mapped the share and give the command: dir /s/w >c:\tmp.txt

On unix, i did a ls -R * >/dev/null.

I timed it with a stopwatch and did the test three times. The result was that nt was a little bit faster.

Then i wanted to know how fast samba and nfs are with searching files.
So choose a partfile and used the following commands:

On nt i did a dir partnr.prt /w/s

and on unix:
ls -R partnr.prt and find ./ -name "partnr.prt" -print.

There was very little time difference...

So my conclusion is that samba and nfs are almost just as fast.

Does anybody know why then pro Engineer has big performane problems on nt?
Is hpux version of pro/e using special system calls or something? Or is it keeping a database with all the files in it's searhpaths?

Or should we limit our searchpaths?

I already tried some nfs client for windows, but there are slower then samba...

How are you all sharing your unix files with nt?

Thnx

[Mark Vollmers]

Bert-

I wouldn't think that there is a difference between how it grabs files in NT vx. Unix, save the physical commands. It sounds like the problem is not necesarily with finding the files but opening them. Could there be some sort of networking issue (NT on a remote location, etc)?
I would suggest calling PTC and asking tech support if there are any issues or suggestions that they have, given what you have experienced. Maybe unix is inherently faster but that would seem odd. Good luck.

Mark

[Bert Kamps]

Hi,

Well other plants were having the some problems as we had.
It is not a network issue.

We first had parts directories, with many revisions in it.
What we've done is put all the trucks in different directories and only put the latest revision in the dir.
Then made a script that copies all those files on a B1000 and i've installed samba 2.2.2 and everything is working correct now.

NT has problems with many directories/files :(

I wanna thanks everybody for their help !!!