PLEASE UPDATE FORUMS ETIQUETTE

[Shannon Petry]

I would like to see an addition to this to stop members from spamming questions with point concerns. In one post, I saw 3 comments from members with no other information.


From post "http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,,0x79b24a988422d711abdc0090277a778c,00.html"

--RAVI--

January 14, 2003 11:10 AM GMT [ unassigned ]
Hi, guys

Think twice before answering this guy posting.
I never seen this guy assigning point

--Jochen Heuer--

January 14, 2003 12:19 PM GMT [ unassigned ]

Hi Cheung,

maybe this helps:

http://66.216.15.50/ITRCForumsEtiquette/


--harry d brown jr--
January 14, 2003 12:53 PM GMT [ unassigned ]
Cheung,

You should take care of this:

This member has assigned points to 98 of 186 responses to his/her questions.

You can find your previous posts in your profile:

http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/TopSolutions/1,,CA877098!1!questions,00.html

It's pathetic that you have to be continously reminded!

live free or die
harry



It is a members right to answer questions or not answer questions. It is NOT your right to spam a question because in your opinion someone has not given out enough points.

If it bothers you, dont answer the questions. When you spam a question, whom does this benefit besides your own ego? The answer to this is "noone".

The forums are here to help people. Please feed your ego's somewhere else!

[Patrick Wallek]

Shannon,

I will think about doing this. I haven't made my mind up yet as to whether or not this is appropriate etiquette material.

I'm not promising anything one way or the other at this point.

Patrick

[Stefan Farrelly]

It gets my vote as being span and should be discouraged.

Instead, how about we get Procura to produce another stats list each week/month - those who have assigned the least points to his/her qustions? sort of name and shame them.

[Eugeny Brychkov]

Generally I agree with this point, BUT...
then I would like to ask Dan to insert one more page when user is registering to the forum: page where it's written "it's highly recommended to assign points...". For now we have link on main page 'how to assign points', but I'm not sure that people is reading it. So I would propose to insert this page into registration process with 'read acknowledged' button to be sure that person get acquainted with the policy
Eugeny

[Stefan Farrelly]

It gets my vote as being spam and should be discouraged.

Instead, how about we get Procura to produce another stats list each week/month - those who have assigned the least points to his/her qustions? sort of name and shame them.

[Marco Santerre]

I know that I'm fairly new here but I'd have to agree with Shannon. Isn't defeating the whole purpose of this forum if we are not sharing the wealth because such and such is not assigning points to his questions?

I do love the points. I find they are a great way to encourage people for answers. Unfortuantely, it seems that the tables have turned and now it is a way to find who "deserves" to have an answer and who doesn't.

I love this forum for what it brought me... knowledge. The points are only a bonus. So i'd have to agree with Shannon, it is spam.

[Jochen Heuer]

Hi Shannon,

I don't think this is (only) about points, hats, egos or whatever. It is more about finding out if a question is answered or not. And if you do search the forums you can find out *which* answer solved the problem lateron.

But doing this multiple times in one thread is not good either, I agree.

Regards,

Jochen

[James R. Ferguson]

Hi Shannon:

Yes, I absolutely agree with you. Points are intended for "thanks" (in whatever form you look for them) and as "bread-crumbs" for finding the "best" answers much later in time.

The old adage, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." applies here.

Personally, I don't want to have to read the spam either. Worse, is my fear (and some anecdotal evidence) that threatening and begging for points achieves the opposite of what we ideally seek; viz. threads full of rabbits for garbage answers.

Regards!

...JRF...

[Frank Slootweg]

Some thoughts from The Other Side (tm):

In my opinion, a "name and shame" list is inappropriate and such a list in itself can be considered abuse.

Regarding (Eugeny's) "getting acquainted with the policy":

The policy reminders are 'splattered' all over the place. IIRC, at least when you post your first post and in each and every e-mail notification. Perhaps none of the 'offenders' use e-mail notification, but I strongly doubt it. So people *are* informed about the policy. No use to inform them in ever more places.

Regarding (Jochen's) "It is more about finding out if a question is answered or not. And if you do search the forums you can find out *which* answer solved the problem later on.":

If that is why people are 'hammering' on points, then why don't they just *say so*?

[John Payne_2]

It's upsetting to see people who do this and do not answer the question. They have taken the time to read the question and hit the reply button, and generally it is people who should know the answers being asked, but they do not answer the question. The main thing that needs to happen here is the questiosn people have need to be answered. (In my opinion...)

John

[Rainer von Bongartz]

Hi Shannon,


I fully support your idea !!!

It really is annoying reading post from always the same people complaining about 'This guy did no assign points to x of y questions'

Perhaps the corresponding statistics should be removed.
I never check if a guy assigned points to previous questions before I answer.
So what is the statistic useful for ???

People who take part into this forum only for getting points should ask themself again what this forum is for....


Regards
Rainer

[Sridhar Bhaskarla]

Hi Shannon,

I completely agree with you that it is a member's right to answer questions or not answer questions.

But without the point system, I don't know how well it will work completely on *voluntary* basis. I feel there must be competition in everything we do together to get the quality out. I do believe that point system is one thing that is causing more people to participate here.

It is sometimes annoying to see people pressing for points. At the same time it is also annoying to see some people who received help *ignoring* the time spent by others. And the time it takes to assign points is negligible when compared to that of posting a solution and sharing one's knowledge.

Assigning points is not only to express thanks but also to scale the responses. This is really going to help other members in future to determine the quality of the answer when they look at the thread later.

I don't know if we want to necessarily call it as ego. It may be competitive spirit needed for a quality environment. If there are only few members responding, then there is a good chance that my mistakes be treated as good solutions.

A *polite* reminder to consider this forum's policies may not be treated as spam.

-Sri

[Shannon Petry]

Okay, first as you can see I'm not giving points, no offense but this topic is debated amongst the high contributors and will interest very few outside of that.

Second, nowhere did I mention that points are not valuable, nor that they have no purpose. Do not confuse the issues.

The issue is simply that I am tired of seeing spam in peoples questions about points. I dont care the reason you may or may not want them.


Comments about points do not belong in a users thread as SPAM!

Sorry, but in the example I gave can you give me any beneficial information from any of the three names mentioned that was not Spam?

One of the comments was given with the exclusive purpose of telling members not to help!

Regards,
Shannon

[John Bolene]

This is a fairly free opinion system in a free country with free speech.

Everyone has an opinion, some voice them, some gripe about other's opinions.

Now I have to ask...why gripe about the gripers?

Fairly pointless and only gives them something else to gripe about.

Just turn the other cheek and don't post that gripe.

2 cents given to charity

[V. Nyga]

Hi Shannon,

in this case your right, one reminder should be enough.

But also one item to Frank and the others:
Only by assigning points and first of all by assigning a bunny everybody knows, if a problem is solved.
I can't believe that the pointing system is so difficult!
But it seems to be a neverending story...
Harry is a very aktiv user who always wants to help and I think for him (and me) it is
very nerving to open a thread where the problem is solved and the man says 'Thanks' but he isn't 'closing' his thread.

Maybe also a problem that this forum is very slow compared to other websides. Because many questions are read from members who want to help, but where the problem is already solved.

Only my thought?

Keep on foruming!
Volkma

[Jochen Heuer]

Hi Sri, I could not phrase it better!

And maybe it's better to remove the option to check how many answers have no points assigned to them. On the other side I think there was a reason why these stats have been implemented. Or have they been there since the beginning of these forums?

I myself find 0 points assigned to my answer better then unassigned! Then at least you know that your answer did not help :-) But you are right that a message with the sole purpose to remind someone of the pointing system has no value either ...

One last point from my side: politeness is something that has to be held high in these forums otherwise we could participate in newsgroups with their raging flamewars ... (That's what I like most about this forum!)

Regards,

Joche

[Carlos Fernandez Riera]

Hi Shannon:

yes, I am really bored of this kind of questions. I said some time ago that it have become a co-side damage of the forum, and still think so. It have been dicused so many times that i avoid to write to these threads.

The only one reason that make me write now is that i consider you an old contributor, and just want to say you:
dont spend more time about this.

Thank for N/A.

[Carlos Fernandez Riera]

BTW: see if you like....

http://forums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,,0xf1174b3ef09fd611abdb0090277a778c,00.html

[H.Merijn Brand (procura]

It's easy to re-order the list like that, but I won't post it (read Frank's message).

General statistics:

00 .. 09 % 688
10 .. 19 % 163
20 .. 29 % 214
30 .. 39 % 231
40 .. 49 % 194
50 .. 59 % 332
60 .. 69 % 280
70 .. 79 % 214
80 .. 89 % 265
90 .. 99 % 218
100 .. 109 % 739
120 .. 129 % 2

Avarage: 54.5 %

This excludes the members that never asked a question.

[Kimberly Ann]

Shannon, et al,

The free forums exist so that a community of like-minded professionals can exchange knowledge, experiences, best practices, and the occasional script within an online community.

As simple as points are, they cause quite a stir. They are as free as the forums themselves, yet some people are reluctant to use them for whatever reason. That is their prerogative. Points are not an entitlement for repliers. Please remember that the primary purpose of points is to provide authors a way of saying thanks AND for indicating a solution was provided. Although HIGHLY encouraged, assigning points is not a requirement to participate in the forums.

Please keep in mind the forums are a place to share knowledge, experience and best practices, and consider points to be a bonus. Shannon and other members of the community are voicing their displeasure with spamming by 'point mongers'. I encourage others to please follow suit.

Regards,
Dan
Forums Manager

[Shannon Petry]

First, this is NOT a debate about why points exist. It is NOT a debate on whether or not anyone including myself agree or dis-agree to points being assigned.

This IS a voiced concern about people spamming messages with "you did not assign points so screw you".


Again, look at the example I gave.

First Spamming was an attempt to turn people from answering the question.

Sorry, but the forums are here to help people. I personally feel that anyone who attempts to get people to not help someone for any reason should be banned from the forums.

Next was someone who did nothing but point to forums etiquette web site. This is not informative, and does nothing to address the users question. SPAM

Lastly was a posting with insults and statistics to show the user why they were not good enough to receive an answer. SPAM


As for me assigning 0 to any responders to this post, from a logical perspective this is correct. You are not assisting me in resolving a problem, there is no good/bad/magic answer. No points should be assigned to a logical debate. Hence, I assign 0 points to responses.

Leave this on the topic of spam. If you want to start a new thread on point purposes, mandation, etc.. then feel free.

And thank you Dan for the support!

[Rita C Workman]

Some friends mentioned this thread yesterday...I finally got a chance to read it this afternoon.

Hope I'm not too late here.

My response:

...The only person you can change is you. The only action you can mandate is yours...

Give freely !
Be it knowledge or points.
Be kind to one another !

Kindest Regards to All,
Rita

[Shannon Petry]

Rita, your never too late, and what you stated is alot of my point. I dont know that your post was phrased to support my argument, but it does.

We can not mandate that users assign points. We do already give them splash pages on question submission with lots of information about points. Some users may not understand (I.E language barriers). Other people may not really care.

The whole point is that we are here to help users. Point spamming does nothing in the way of helping a user. You are not spamming them with things they did not already have access to, nor new information.

I think my biggest concern, was the message telling people not to answer the users question.

If we are discouraging people to help, does this not defeat the whole purpose of the forums?

Extending that thought a bit...
There is no "good" or "nice" way of telling users that they should be assigning points. This will always be projecting negativity.

Will the forums grow and thrive with negative posts and people not only refusing to help but telling others not to help a user?

Still an open discussion. If I am wrong I am wrong. I sure would like to hear from the people named and their thoughts.

Regards,
Shannon

[Wodisch]

Hi,

to *not* reflect on those so-often discussed points, just a few points (SCNR) of mine, some more serious, some less:

@Rita: but changing yourself is *easy* - trying to change somebody else is a long-term entertainment ;-)

@Shannon: thanks for trying to keep this thread on topic!

@all of us: how about trying it the other way round?

Whoever doesn't like some poster's attitude (pointwise) actually CAN add the "points please" statement, but only AFTER a proper reply (on-topic, of course).

Maybe that way those "pointless" posters (new acronym: PP?) get it, then?

FWIW,
Wodisch (happy new year to all of you)