Node Doesn't see Decserver 200 Mop requests

[Lawrence Czlapinski]

On 2nd LAN segment, we haven't been able to get Node to see DecServer 200 Mop requests.
OS: 7.1-2 (although we have same problem when we tried from another node on 7.3).
DECNET_Phase_IV: V7.1-2
TCPIP: V5.0-9
Circuit ewa-1 stays in service -synchronizing state.
MOM is enabled.
» sh log mom$load
"MOM$LOAD" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECSERVER]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
»
Normal state: TSM sees the 2Decservers from this node on circuit ewa-1; they can't be seen from the other circuit.
Workaround: When we connect to the terminal servers to the other segment, it takes a download from another node. Then after switching the LAN connection to 2nd segment, can do remote commands to terminal servers from this node.
CNAXP1» ncp
NCP>sh line ewa-1


Line Volatile Summary as of 30-SEP-2004 15:08:33

Line State

EWA-1 on
NCP>sh cir ewa-1


Circuit Volatile Summary as of 30-SEP-2004 15:08:40

Circuit State Loopback Adjacent
Name Routing Node

EWA-1 service -synchronizing
NCP>sh cir ewa-1 char


Circuit Volatile Characteristics as of 30-SEP-2004 15:09:09

Circuit = EWA-1

State = service
Substate = -synchronizing
Service = enabled
Cost = 10
Maximum routers allowed = 33
Router priority = 64
Hello timer = 15
Type = Ethernet


NCP>
NOTE: It may be awhile before I can test any suggestions with a Decserver Mop request from either of these Decservers.
Lawrence

[Wim Van den Wyngaert]

Lawrence,

I'm not sure if I understand correctly but check 10/100 Mbit and full/half duplex. Once had a simular problem. I also found that 1 of the 2 MOPs (LAN/NCL) still was able to do some work. But I don't have the details over here.

Wim

[Lawrence Czlapinski]

Wim,
The Alpha node has a 10baseT connection to a VLAN switch. This same setup as most nodes on other LAN segement.
On the Alpha node end, at >>> the device is ewb:
%EWB0, Twisted-Pair(10baseT) mode set by console
Lawrence

[Art Wiens]

Have a look at:

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_1930.html

Lists some basic suggestions as to why the circuit can't start. Any hints (like the article mentions) from OPCOM regarding this circuit?

Art

[Wim Van den Wyngaert]

Lawrence,

I had to discuss (mail) for days with the network team. They said it was 10 Mbit/half. After some days it finally appeared 10/full.
Case solved.

Wim

[Ian Miller.]

are you saying you do get some communication on this circuit with the DECserver after it has booted?

Is there anything else trying to do mop on this circuit?

$ ANAL/SYS
SDA> SHOW LAN

Any helpful messages from opcom or in
LANCP SHOW CIRC EWA-1 /COUNT

[John Gillings]

Lawrence,

>This same setup as most nodes on other LAN segement.
>On the Alpha node end, at >>> the device is ewb:
>%EWB0, Twisted-Pair(10baseT) mode set by console

This means the console has hard set the adapter, which means it won't autonegotiate with the switch. That can result in a duplex mismatch. You need to either have both the host and the switch set identically, or set them both to AUTO.

The trouble with a duplex mismatch is it can "work" most of the time, but exhibit transient errors or slow performance.

Note that the next LAN patches for V7.3-1 and V7.3-2 (due in the next few weeks) will contain code that detects duplex mismatches and reports them to the console (at last!).

[Kris Clippeleyr]

Lawrence,

As most of the others pointed out, it's probably a mismatch between the setting of the network card in the Alpha (ewb0_mode) and the setting of the switch to which the Alpha is connected. Our experience over here, is never to set the Auto Negotiate, but always configure the card to be either 10Mb/half or 100Mb/full and let the network guys do accordingly to the switch.

Greetz,

Kris

[Antoniov.]

Lawrence,
because you post EWA-1 line I guess you have at least two NICs; may be stupid but don't forget Decnet IV can manage only 1 NIC (so you can choice EWA-0 or EWA-1, no both).

Antonio Vigliotti

[Lawrence Czlapinski]

Art, We are on a VLAN.
1. executor is on
Neither node we're trying can see MOP request on ewa-1 with
line ewa-1 on (or service)
cir ewa-1 service synchonizing
2. Either node we're trying can see mop requests on ewa-0.
3. The node is not logging any messages in operator.log about anything. I haven't seen anything that turns operator.log off. Any ideas?
4. If I $REPLY/ENABLE=NETWORK and disconnect the line from the Alpha, I get a circuit ewa-1 down message.
5. On one Alpha %EWB0, Twisted-Pair mode is set by console, NETACP$BUFFER_LIMIT is 786,000 with only 79,936 used.
On the other Alpha, NETACP$BUFFER_LIMIT is 264,144 with only 42,752 used.
Lawrence

[Lawrence Czlapinski]

Wim,
The alpha modes just say 10BaseT (twisted pair) which I believe would be full duplex. In VMS Alpha 7.3-1, is there a way I can check whether a line is half or full duplex?
Ian,
1. Before the DECserver gets a boot the Alpha nodes see the DECservers as being available but don't open a SYS$MANAGER:MOM.LOG when the DECservers are requesting a download. That implies that the nodes aren't seeing the MOP request on EWA-1. If the server is switched over to EWA-0, both nodes see the MOP request.
2. After a MOP download on EWA-0, I can switch the DECserver over to EWA-1 and both nodes can do a TSM> USE SERVER ewa1_server_name.
3. There are no other kinds of MOP requests on this circuit.
Ian,
On Alpha ASDEV, I get an SDALINK mismatch so looks like I'll have to log a call with HP for that.
On CNAxxx, I don't see a MOPDL client in the EWB summary. That is relevant. So how do I get MOPDL enabled for EWA-1?
Antonio,
In, EWB port on same Network Interface Card (NIC), also SDA shows DECNET, IP and LAT. I hadn't heard of a restriction of 1 DECNET port on a system before. In any case, we want to get MOPDL working on EWB port (line ewa-1). LAT works on EWB segment from DECserver terminals to Alpha nodes.
Lawrence



Lawrence

[Wim Van den Wyngaert]

mc lancp show dev /char

Are your mop processes running ?
Mop via lancp and/or ncp ?
Is it possible that the wrong mop version is receiving the mop requests (lancp instead of ncp) ?

Wim

[Antoniov.]

Lawrence,
sorry for breaking but if you have really decnet IV you can work only ewa-0 line and circuit, not ewa-1 neither ewb-0 or others lines.
You read this thread about similar trouble http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=649777

So you have 2 choices:
1) You have to use decnet V
2) You have to use some product of network failover

Antonio Vigliotti

[Ian Miller.]

DECnet IV non-routing nodes can have only one active circuit.

Note there are two MOP protocols MOPDL (6001) and MOPRC (6002).

service-sync indicates the circ is enabled for mop downloads and its trying to start. Check in LANCP SHOW DLL to see if LANCP has MOP enabled on that circ exclusivly. This would prevent DECnet from enabling MOP on the same circ.

[Jan van den Ende]

Ian,

>>> DN IV non-routing notes can only have one NIC. <<<
Obviously Routing nodes, for really doing routing, need more.
But, in that case, can those NIC's then be on the same network? Logically? Physically?

Long time since I had Phase IV on hand, just curious.


Cheers.


Have one on me


Jan

[Lawrence Czlapinski]

On CNAXP1, Line EWA-1 is now on and circuit EWA-1 is now on. I now see LANCP MOPDL on device EWB.
Ian,

-- EWB Device Summary 4-OCT-2004 13:36:24 --

LSB address = 814ACD40
Device state = 00000003 RUN,INITED

UCB UCB Addr Fmt Value Client State
--- -------- --- ----- ------ -----------
EWB0 814AC980
EWB2 814C6C80 Eth 60-07 SCA 0017 STRTN,LEN,UNIQ,STRTD
EWB4 81639840 Eth 60-03 DECNET 0017 STRTN,LEN,UNIQ,STRTD
EWB5 81652900 Eth 60-04 LAT 0015 STRTN,UNIQ,STRTD
EWB6 81680800 Eth 08-00 IP 0015 STRTN,UNIQ,STRTD
EWB7 81697E40 Eth 08-06 ARP 0015 STRTN,UNIQ,STRTD
EWB8 81698500 Eth 86-DD 0015 STRTN,UNIQ,STRTD
EWB473 8174C7C0 Eth 60-01 MOPDL 009F STRTN,LEN,UNIQ,SHARE,STRTD
,SHRDEF
EWB473 8173E100 Eth 90-00 LOOP 009D STRTN,UNIQ,SHARE,STRTD,SHR
DEF

CNAXP1» lancp show device ewb/count

Device Counters EWB0:
Value Counter
----- -------
14133050 Seconds since last zeroed
7177217511 Bytes received
572339637 Bytes sent
42296878 Packets received
5114893 Packets sent
7170129644 Multicast bytes received
570863028 Multicast bytes sent
42142910 Multicast packets received
4960265 Multicast packets sent
0 Unrecognized unicast destination packets
4379644 Unrecognized multicast destination packets
0 Unavailable station buffers
0 Unavailable user buffers
0 Alignment errors
0 Frame check errors
0 Frame size errors
0 Frame status errors
0 Frame length errors
0 Frame too long errors
0 Data overruns
0 Send data length errors
0 Receive data length errors
0 Transmit underrun errors
0 Transmit failures
0 Carrier check failures
0 Station failures
2670 Initially deferred packets sent
116 Single collision packets sent
137 Multiple collision packets sent
0 Excessive collisions
0 Late collisions
0 Collision detect check failures
CNAXP1

[Uwe Zessin]

Jan,
they _must not_ be on the same LAN, because each NIC uses the same MAC address (AA-00-...) for DECnet traffic. A switched infrastructure gets slightly confused then.

Many years ago (6-7) I had the fun of debugging such a configuration...

(That is only topped if you provide remote phone support for a person who has given the same DECnet address for all his systems.)

[Lawrence Czlapinski]

Device ewb is half duplex. So that
CNAXP1» lancp show device/char ewb

Device Characteristics EWB0:
Value Characteristic
----- --------------
1500 Device buffer size
Normal Controller mode
External Internal loopback mode
00-06-2B-00-78-58 Hardware LAN address
Multicast address list
CSMA/CD Communication medium
FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF Current LAN address
64 Minimum receive buffers
128 Maximum receive buffers
No Full duplex enable
No Full duplex operational
TwistedPair Line media type
10 Line speed (mbps)
CNAXP1»

Ian, LANCP MOP is not enabled on any ethernet devices which agrees with the status on nodes that are supplying MOP terminal server downloads on the primary ethernet segment.
Antonio,
1. Unfortunately switching to Phase V is not currently an option.
2. And ewb is not a fail over device. Line ewa-1 is used for some production lan traffic to isolate it from the rest of the lan. We just want to be able to do MOP terminal server downloads. It is unfortunate that MOP download doesn't use the hardware address rather than the physical address. So we may be stuck with manually disconnecting from ewa-1 segment and getting the download from ewa-0 segment after every power outage.
3. CNAXP1 is a non-routing node.
ASDEV1 is a routing IV node.
Lawre

[Bojan Nemec · Accepted solution]

Lawrence,

Have you tried to disable MOP on EWA-0 with
SET CIRCUIT EWA-0 SERVICE DISABLED?

Bojan

[Uwe Zessin]

Careful: last time I checked, the circuit must be STATE OFF, before you can change the characteristic in the volatile database.

[Lawrence Czlapinski]

Wim, we are using DECNET MOP but if we can't get that to work we may have to go with the LANCP MOP which you mentioned.
LANCP> DEFINE DEVICE EWB/MOPDLL=NOEXCLUSIVE
LANCP> SET DEVICE EWB/MOPDLL=NOEXCLUSIVE
Lawrence

[Lawrence Czlapinski]

Bojan, Thanks! we didn't realize disabling service would disable MOP on EWA-0. We have lots of nodes that can do MOP on EWA segment.
Uwe, thanks for reminder about setting circuit STATE OFF first.

So did:
NCP> DEFINE CIRCUIT EWA-0 SERVICE DISABLE
NCP> SET CIR EWA-0 STATE OFF
NCP> SET CIR EWA-0 SERVICE DISABLED
NCP> SET CIR EWA-0 STATE ON
Now in ANAL/SYS device EWA MOPDLL is not listed. For EWB MOPDLL is listed.
We have scheduled a MOP download test for Monday.
Lawrence

[Lawrence Czlapinski]

On June 3rd, we finally got a MOP download from CNAXP1 on circuit EWA-1. Thanks to everyone!
It is now full duplex enabled and operational from LANCP. So we can now download from 1 of the nodes which is progress.
LANCP> SH DEV/CHAR EWB/DLL

Device Listing, volatile database:
--- MOP Downline Load Service Characteristics ---
Device State Access Mode Clients Data Size
------ ----- ----------- ------- ---------
EWB0 Enabled NoExclusive NoKnownClientsOnly 246 bytes

Device Characteristics EWB0:
Value Characteristic
----- --------------
1500 Device buffer size
Normal Controller mode
External Internal loopback mode
00-06-2B-00-78-58 Hardware LAN address
Multicast address list
CSMA/CD Communication medium
FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF Current LAN address
64 Minimum receive buffers
128 Maximum receive buffers
Yes Full duplex enable
Yes Full duplex operational
TwistedPair Line media type
10 Line speed (mbps)
LANCP>
Lawrence

[Lawrence Czlapinski]

We can get MOP requests on the second segment from at least one of the nodes. On other nodes the circuit stays in synchronizing status.